SermonIndex Audio Sermons
SermonIndex - Promoting Revival to this Generation
Give To SermonIndex
Discussion Forum : General Topics : The wicked church in America

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 Next Page )
PosterThread
BenBrockway
Member



Joined: 2006/5/31
Posts: 427


 Re:

Quote:

JaySaved wrote:


Just because someone walks down and aisle, repeats a prayers and signs a membership card, does not mean that they are believers or part of the church.




That is essentially what I am saying. I guess there are two different ways of looking at the Church. If we were to look through the eyes of God, you would be right in that there is ultimately one "Church." However since we cannot look through His eyes, then America's perception of church may be a little scewed. After all, Scripture states,
"Mat 7:21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.


Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?


Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

So, I think that that is why there is two classes of people within the American church (and the Church as a whole.) There will be many that will have done many great things (in our view), and yet, God will say otherwise. Which is why I stated that God will separate the clean from the unclean.

 2007/1/10 16:06Profile
BenBrockway
Member



Joined: 2006/5/31
Posts: 427


 Re:

Quote:

roaringlamb wrote:
Quote:
It is this true church that may slide into sin but God will rebuke and discipline. God is not going to destroy this church simply because some false believers live like the world.


That is exactly why I say we should stop referring to the buildings as churches. The Church cannot be destroyed! Purified yes as you have pointed out. I am reminded of two scriptures
"whom the Lord loveth He chasteneth", and also when Christ said to one of the seven Churches in Revelation, "whom I love I rebuke, and chasten. Be zealous therefore and repent."
In the Hebrews passage I quoted from it even goes on to say that if you are without chastening, then you are illegitimate, or as the KJV says "bastards".
Chastening is a sign of our Father's dealings with us, to drive out what remains of self. Kinda makes you wonder about the "entire sanctification" thing Huh? Oops wrong thread, just musing aloud. :-D



I think that this is were the words used in Scripture come in, though, about "The Body." I think your meshing both "The Body" and "the church" into one in the same definition. There are differences. What you're referring to, I feel should be defined as "The body."

Just my thought. ;-)

 2007/1/10 16:12Profile
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1132
Missouri

 Re:

EDIT:
Duplicate post.

 2007/1/10 16:18Profile
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1132
Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
I think that this is were the words used in Scripture come in, though, about "The Body." I think your meshing both "The Body" and "the church" into one in the same definition. There are differences. What you're referring to, I feel should be defined as "The body."



Ephesians 5:23
For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior.

Colossians 1:18
And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent.

Colossians 1:24
Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in Christ's afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church,

I don't see any difference between 'The Body' and 'The church'. I consider the church to be the body of Christ.

The problem comes when we refer to the Body/Church as including unbelievers.

 2007/1/10 16:19Profile









 Re: There has always been a remnant...The Church!

Quote:

JaySaved wrote:
I want to make my position perfectly clear. You may disagree but that is fine.

The church in which Jesus is the head does not contain a single unbeliever. Yes, unbelievers come to buildings that contain members of the universal church but this does not mean that these unbelievers are part of the church.

Just because someone walks down and aisle, repeats a prayers and signs a membership card, does not mean that they are believers or part of the church.

It is this true church that may slide into sin but God will rebuke and discipline. God is not going to destroy this church simply because some false believers live like the world.




JaySaved,

I completely agree with you (and by the way, if you listen to some of Pastor David Wilkerson's latest messages...He does too)

I think the issue comes down to doctrine. (As it always seems to) What does the bible actually teach?

There has always been a Church, a remnant, the People of God, etc. And there has always been everyone else, Israel, Assyria, America, Canada, etc.

The Just (ified) are those who live by faith; those who live by the promises of God, not by their own works. There has always been those who do not seek to justify themselves before a Holy God, but look to the One who justifies them by His own life.

In the OT the church looked ahead. In the NT we look back. The promise was originally given all the way back in Genesis. Then to Abraham, then to Isaac, then Jacob, the Joseph, etc.

We err if we compare Israel, the nation, to the Church. The two are not synonymous. The Church must be compared to (and is compared to by Paul) Abraham. All those who believe the Promise are the children of Abraham...not those who are descendants of Abraham.

God's dealing with the nation of Israel was according to the covenant they made with Him at Mt. Sinai. It was a covenant of works....do this and you will be blessed....do this and you will be cursed.

God deals with His Church (the descendants of Abraham) according to a Covenant of Grace. All of our righteousness is found in another man...Christ Jesus.


So, then what we have to do is go back and see how God views His church…His People.
He is well-pleased with them because they are in Christ Jesus. We need not look at Israel and deduce that that is how God deals with His People; we need to look at the life of Abraham, David, Joseph, Rahab, Hannah, Samuel, Josiah, etc.

 2007/1/10 16:25
BenBrockway
Member



Joined: 2006/5/31
Posts: 427


 Re:

Quote:

JaySaved wrote:
Quote:
I think that this is were the words used in Scripture come in, though, about "The Body." I think your meshing both "The Body" and "the church" into one in the same definition. There are differences. What you're referring to, I feel should be defined as "The body."



Ephesians 5:23
For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior.

Colossians 1:18
And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent.

Colossians 1:24
Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in Christ's afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church,

I don't see any difference between 'The Body' and 'The church'. I consider the church to be the body of Christ.

The problem comes when we refer to the Body/Church as including unbelievers.




Ok. Thank you. I digress. ;-) I was wrong. Thank you for clearing that up for me. I hadn't looked up the Scripture, and forgot that the "church" was included in those same verses. My mistake, and I apologize.
:-)

 2007/1/10 16:38Profile
BenBrockway
Member



Joined: 2006/5/31
Posts: 427


 Re:

Quote:

JaySaved wrote:

The problem comes when we refer to the Body/Church as including unbelievers.




Agreed.... COMPLETELY!

 2007/1/10 16:40Profile
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1132
Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
So, then what we have to do is go back and see how God views His church...His People.
He is well-pleased with them because they are in Christ Jesus.



I completely agree.

 2007/1/10 16:42Profile
Meriwether
Member



Joined: 2006/8/13
Posts: 33


 Re:

Yep. Me too.

 2007/1/10 16:55Profile
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Quote:
So, then what we have to do is go back and see how God views His church...His People.


Excellent point.


_________________
patrick heaviside

 2007/1/10 16:59Profile





©2002-2024 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Revival to this Generation.
Privacy Policy