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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : The SIN of FORBIDDING the GIFTS

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Yeshuasboy
Member



Joined: 2006/6/10
Posts: 668
Northern Rockies, BC, Canada

 Re:

The Lord blesses humble honesty :-D
Our Lord was meek and lowly when He walked the Earth in the flesh. Should His disciples be anything different? I think Horatius Bonar said something to that effect.
For it is the Lord that gives, and it is the Lord that takes away, so blessed be His Name! I am what I am because of His grace alone! And I need His grace more than anything else...His grace alone is sufficient :-D Praise God!!!!
Give me humility Lord...Give me Love for others...Give me You...I desire You!!!!!! May You be my only desire...for You are a jealous God, and I thankyou and praise you for being Jealous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Richie

 2006/12/7 9:05Profile
GraceAlone
Member



Joined: 2006/8/23
Posts: 232
Orlando, Florida

 Re:

Quote:
The SIN of FORBIDDING the GIFTS. It is sad a reality that the God instituted gifts of the Holy Spirit are forbidden in Churches today. This is not only wrong, but SIN. It is sin to VIOLATE the WORD OF GOD

I agree that its sin to forbid gifts concidering that GOD GIVES THEM. But some people believe that certian gifts still exist today. Some gifts were given to the early church to lay the foundation of the church. Eph 2:20, 2 Corinthians 12:12.
Its not a sin to not practice "speaking in tounges". Considering that this sign doesn't happen today. Not that it can't but it won't. It was a means of the early church to preach the gospel. I'm sorry but if this is what you are reffering to then I have to say that this is not a sin. To be convinced by the scriptures that these things are not practiced and in so doing not do them at church is not a sin. As a matter of fact, it would be a sin if somebody were to violate thier conscience that way.

Anyways, considering that this topic is non-essential for salvation or sanctification I think it may be wise to say "Just serve God".

What of the lost and the dying? What of those in any church who are not told the truth and are self-decieved? Especially those with false assurance.

Quote:
Do you know why? It's not flashy. Like Dr. Tozer said, fruit doesn't strut. Gifts strut. There's no "oohing" and "ahhing" when fruit blooms in the believer's life. It's too costly, too painful, too self-denying.

Amen.


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Kristy

 2006/12/7 9:47Profile
EVAVGELIST
Member



Joined: 2006/11/23
Posts: 113
PERRIS CA

 Re:

Quote:
A.A. Allen who moved in the gifts while living in unrepentant sin.



I have A.A. Allens collection of videos, ect. We deal with his son Paul sometimes; but if he moved in the power of God while living in sin, I do not know but one day I guess we will find out.

Quote:
"But Lord, Lord, we cast out devils and healed the sick in your name!" "Depart from me, workers of iniquity!"



Have you ever thought Gods answer could be, NO

Won't the antichirst be performing great signs and wonders? What about the spirits of the devils in Rev. 16:14 doing miracles? Didn't Pharoah's wizards demonstrate certain signs like Moses?

I do not belive the antichrist/devils/wizards do miracles in Jesus name.


Quote:
I'm so tired of hearing about gifts-this and gifts-that while true holiness and repentance and self-denial are avoided like the plaque.



This is sad truth, but like I said the gifts of the Holy Spirit is a one element in maintaining a balanced Christian walk.

I think you would agree, “So, when despising TRUE prophetic ministry or forbidding SPIRIT led tongues you are not just coming against man but rather violating the Lord’s commandments. Hey Brother, I would be the first to rebuke FALSE prophetic ministry and flesh/demonic led tongues.


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JOSHUA MEYERS

 2006/12/7 12:43Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
I do not belive the antichrist/devils/wizards do miracles in Jesus name.



Well, allow me to be the bringer of bad news, friend. They [i]do[/i]. There are Mexican spiritual [i]curanderos[/i] that heal malignant tumors in the name of Jesus. In Russia where I used to live, candle-burning faith healers abound, chanting the Lord's prayer and bowing before golden icons of the virgin and child, waving incense, and healing back pain and cancer in Jesus' (Iisusa Kristos) name. Devils can heal (temporarily) using Jesus' name, but afterwards the condition always relapses to a far worse state, and usually ends in a painful, tragic death. I've seen it with my own two eyes. Very common in eastern European countries where a creepy form of mystical/occultic orthodox faith prevails. If you think everything is black and white as far as spiritual gifts go, I'm sorry to say, but you're buried in the sand and ignorant of the powers of hell. Satan is an angel of light, able to work false miracles in Jesus' name and deceive many. False Christs appear, and they work signs and wonders.

This is precisely why we must make sure genuine fruit preceeds gifts. Why else would Jesus warn of the [i]many[/i] who would move in obvious gifts, saying "Lord, Lord", working astounding miracles of healing and driving demons out in the so-called name of Christ...only to be cast from His presence and into eternal hellfire?

Other than this, I agree with everything you've written in the last post.

Brother Paul


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Paul Frederick West

 2006/12/7 17:57Profile
lovegrace
Member



Joined: 2006/8/12
Posts: 313


 Re:

enid, Don't worry about 'Evangelist'. Just pray for him, which you probly are.

Like most Pentacostals/Charasmatics they are off balance. Then, like ANY unbalanced people, when you try to help balance them out, they yell and scream.

I did, you probly did, and of course WE ALL DO when God moves in our lives and we 'strech and grow' in the maturity of Christ.

Let Evangelist 'toot his own horn'. The moderators are led by God and if the thread is out of hand they will take the nessecary actions.


Now. To this thread. Just a brief word.

Talk about quenching the gifts. How about quenching the gospel. I think there is more error in the church (yes there can be error in the church) relating to the true gospel than in relating to gifts.

The only problem I see with any kind of gift, Tongues, prophesy, service, mercy, etc, Is that some people say 'no' and that in of itself is wrong. Quenching the heart of the people is a dictatorship authority and should be renounced by the church of Christ.

Christ works within all of us and we should move as God leads and not stop Him, but yet test ALL things and hold to what is good.

 2006/12/7 19:56Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
we should move as God leads and not stop Him, but yet test ALL things and hold to what is good.



Amen! A phrase of refreshing sobriety. Thank you, sister.

Brother Paul


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Paul Frederick West

 2006/12/7 20:49Profile
EVAVGELIST
Member



Joined: 2006/11/23
Posts: 113
PERRIS CA

 Re:

Quote:
Well, allow me to be the bringer of bad news, friend. They do.



I was not talking in general; I was talking about in the context of the Scriptures you quoted.


Quote:
This is precisely why we must make sure genuine fruit preceeds gifts. Why else would Jesus warn of the many who would move in obvious gifts, saying "Lord, Lord", working astounding miracles of healing and driving demons out in the so-called name of Christ...only to be cast from His presence and into eternal hellfire?



GOOD INSIGHT.


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JOSHUA MEYERS

 2006/12/7 22:42Profile
EVAVGELIST
Member



Joined: 2006/11/23
Posts: 113
PERRIS CA

 Re:

Quote:
The only problem I see with any kind of gift, Tongues, prophesy, service, mercy, etc, Is that some people say 'no' and that in of itself is wrong. Quenching the heart of the people is a dictatorship authority and should be renounced by the church of Christ.



This is what I am saying!!

One of the points I am trying to say is when JESUS says YES to something and Church folks say no; the Church folks ARE WRONG!!!


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JOSHUA MEYERS

 2006/12/7 22:51Profile
GraceAlone
Member



Joined: 2006/8/23
Posts: 232
Orlando, Florida

 Re:

"Tounges" can not be proven to be supported by God today. Proof being today's interpretation of tounges is BABBLE not languages. Biblical tounges were LANGUAGES. Its the gift of LANGUAGES. You can't say that Christ supports this babble stuff. It ceased with the end of the apostles and the foundation of the church.

___________________________________________
Heres more from an Article:
It is also reasonable to conclude that with the passing of the apostles those gifts which the Bible identifies as the marks of apostleship departed with them. These marks are listed as 'signs, wonders and miracles' (2 Cor 12:12; cf. Acts 14:3). In apostolic times the authority of the apostolic office was not only demonstrated in the miraculous works done by the apostles themselves, but also by the fact that they could confer the gift to do wondrous works to others through the laying on of hands (Acts 8:17; 19:6; cf. 1 Tim. 4:14). Such strong links between the office of apostleship and the more unusual gifts lend strong support to the conclusion of Benjamin Warfield, that 'the extraordinary gifts belonged to the extraordinary offices and showed themselves only in connection with its activities.'

32 Yet there are some difficult questions associated with the weak cessationist position. The first is: which gifts are to be included among the extraordinary and miraculous gifts which have ceased? There is no consensus on the identity of the miraculous gifts. In the previous article we noted that some regarded the gift of prophecy as extraordinary, while others regarded it as a gift that can be found among preachers who excel in Bible interpretation and application.
33 Those who give the first interpretation tend to list prophecy with the gifts that have ceased, while those who follow the second interpretation list it with the Spirit's permanent gifts to the church.

A second question concerns the time of the cessation of miraculous gifts. John Calvin, William Perkins and George Gillespie, who link the miraculous gifts with the earliest period of the Church's development, are open to the possibility of a re-occurrence of extraordinary offices and their gifts in extraordinary circumstances. For them the cessation of these gifts meant that they had ceased to function as an ordinary part of church life, not that they had ceased altogether. But Warfield's argument that these gifts were linked with the apostolic office and therefore ceased with the disappearance of this office is consistent with both history and Scripture. Perhaps the insights of both viewpoints can be combined in the recognition that the gift allowing some of God's people to do extraordinary works for God at their will has disappeared, but that God may still use human agents to do wondrous works in extraordinary circumstances.

To sum up, our discussion has shown that the word cessationism is indeed used with many different shades of meaning, and for this reason the word should not be used without careful definitions and qualifications. We rejected that view of cessationism that would deny the possibility of miracles today. At the same time we noted that there is a wide consensus in Reformed theology that the Spirit's miraculous gifts were not meant as permanent and abiding gifts to the church. If the term cessationism is to have any objective meaning it is probably to be sought in this consensus.


_________________
Kristy

 2006/12/8 18:05Profile
Yeshuasboy
Member



Joined: 2006/6/10
Posts: 668
Northern Rockies, BC, Canada

 Re:

To many people, speaking in tongues is "babbling"...quite sad as far as i'm concerned. I have to just "shake my head" in amazement :-? Confusion abounds, but it is not of the Lord, for He isnot the author of it.


_________________
Richie

 2006/12/8 18:16Profile





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