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Logic
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Joined: 2005/7/17
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 Re:

Quote:

PreachParsly wrote:
What is a natural man?


The word Greek word "natural" comes from the Greek word for "soul"

Greek Strongs #5591 ψυχικός
psuchikos (psoo-khee-kos')
Therefore, a natural man is not a spiritual man.
This is the same as being carnal.

Therfore, it is one that does not know Jesus as in John 17:3

 2006/12/28 23:13Profile
PreachParsly
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 Re:

Are men born with the Spirit?


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Josh Parsley

 2006/12/28 23:39Profile
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 Re: through one man

This morning I was browsing, again, through Romans 5. My attention was drawn to the little word 'by' as in

[color=0000ff]“Wherefore, as [u]by[/u] one man sin entered into the world, and death [u]by[/u] sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:” (Rom 5:12 KJVS)[/color]

The NKJV uses the word ''through' here to translate the Greek word [url=http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/strongs.pl?hr=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.blueletterbible.org%2Fsearch.html&icon=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.blueletterbible.org%2Fgifs%2Fsearch_tools.gif&bgcolor=FFFFFF&textcolor=000000&linkcolor=39398C&vlinkcolor=0000FF&strongs=1223&language=G&anything.x=29&anything.y=9]dia[/url] which the Blue Letter Bible site makes clear is "a primary preposition denoting the channel of an act". The text of Rom 5:12 therefore is telling us very plainly that 'one man' was the channel through whom Sin entered into the world. Moreover the word 'dia' is repeated in reference to the Sin which entered 'through Adam'. Not only did Sin enter 'through the channel' of Adam but Death entered 'through the channel' of Sin. We have here two identifiable 'stages'; Sin entered, Death entered.

We know from Genesis that Adam experienced 'Death' in the day that he ate the forbidden fruit. So the sequence is
1. Adam transgressed
2. Sin entered through Adam
3. Death entered through Sin's presence 'in' Adam.

This is the plain statement of the scripture.

In case we should have any doubt about the significance of 'dia' we can see Paul's consistent use of the preposition in Romans and particularly in Romans 5...
[color=0000ff]Rom. 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God [u]through[/u] our Lord Jesus Christ,
Rom. 5:2 [u]through[/u] whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Rom. 5:5 Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts [u]by[/u] the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
Rom. 5:9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath [u]through[/u] Him.
Rom. 5:10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God [u]through[/u] the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
Rom. 5:11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God [u]through[/u] our Lord Jesus Christ, [u]through[/u] whom we have now received the reconciliation.
Rom. 5:12 ¶ Therefore, just as [u]through[/u] [b]one[/b] man sin entered the world, and death [u]through[/u] sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—
Rom. 5:15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the [b]one[/b] man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the [b]one[/b] Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many.
Rom. 5:16 And the gift is not like that which came [u]through[/u] the [b]one[/b] who sinned. For the judgment which came from [b]one[/b] offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification.
Rom. 5:17 For if by the [b]one[/b] man’s offense death reigned [u]through[/u] the [b]one[/b], much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life [u]through[/u] the [b]One[/b], Jesus Christ.)
Rom. 5:18 ¶ Therefore, as [u]through[/u] [b]one[/b] man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so [u]through[/u] [b]one[/b] Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.
Rom. 5:19 For as [u]by[/u] [b]one[/b] man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also [u]by[/u] [/b]one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.
Rom. 5:21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign [u]through[/u] righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. [/color]

All we have to do to get the sense of 'through' is read these verses. It is the channel through which something flows. In addition to underlining the word 'through' I have also emboldened the word 'one'. 8 times and in 5 verses Paul uses the phrase 'by one' or 'through one'; Rom 5:12,15-17,19

All we have to do to understand this passage's teaching is to ask the same question, twice!

What was channeled by the first 'one' man?
What was channeled by the second 'one' man?

According to Rom 5:14 Adam was a 'type'; [color=0000ff]“Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.” (Rom 5:14 NKJV)[/color]. A 'type' is not just an illustration is serves as a template. Adam, the first man was, in this point, a template for the second man. Christ is, according to 1Cor 15:47, the second man. In this way of revelation it is as though there have only ever been two men. Hence, we are in one or the other, and these two states are mutually exclusive. Entrance into the 'second man' is by baptism into Him by the Holy Spirit, otherwise known as 'birth'. Second birth puts us into the Second Man. Entrance into the 'first man' was also by birth; First Birth puts us into the First Man.


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Ron Bailey

 2006/12/29 4:41Profile
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 Re:

The inclination of our will effects vidual choices that we make. The choice that you make will naturally follow your inclination. Consequently, if you love yourself or the world more than the one commanding you, you cannot consistently do things that please the commander. Your decisions are in bondage to your effections and inclinations so that you only do what you have favor towards.
Love God, hate sin; Love yourself and the world, hate God.

[color=990000]When the mind is set on the things of the flesh, it is not subject to the law of God, not indeed can be[/color] [b]Romans 8:7[/b]. You cannot love God when you love yourself more.
However, there is liberty in turning to God and setting your effection on Christ.
In other words, [b]Romans 8:4-5[/b] [color=990000]That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[b]:5[/b] For the ones that are according to the mindset of the flesh naturaly do the things of the flesh. And the ones according to the mindset of the Spirit naturaly do the things of the things of the Spirit.[/color]

 2007/1/1 16:34Profile
philologos
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 Re:

Quote:
The inclination of our will


Can you give me a biblical definition of what you mean by 'the will'?


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Ron Bailey

 2007/1/1 17:20Profile
PreachParsly
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 Re:

I'm also curious if you believe men are born with the Spirit of God... If they are not then they are carnal.


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Josh Parsley

 2007/1/1 18:08Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
philologos wrote:
Quote:
The inclination of our will


Can you give me a biblical definition of what you mean by 'the will'?

Your will is your intension, or your desire, or in todays venacular; it's what you want.

God is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart(Hebrews 4:13).
[b]Jer 17:10[/b] [color=990000]I, Jehovah, search the heart, I try the reins, even to give to each man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his doings.[/color]
[b]Revelation 2:23b[/b] [color=990000]I am the One searching the inner parts and hearts. And I will give to each of you according to your works.[/color]
Quote:
PreachParsly wrote:
I'm also curious if you believe men are born with the Spirit of God... If they are not then they are carnal.


No, they are not carnal, but only natural, unless they are like John the baptiser who was indwelt of the Holy Spirit in the womb.

Natural from the greek word for soul;
Natural is the Greek Strong No.#5446
φυσικός (phusikos)
foo-see-kos'
“physical”, that is, (by implication) [b]instinctive[/b]: - natural

Here is why they are not carnal but only natural:
Does an infant walk after the flesh and does an infant mind the things of the flesh?
remember the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, ect...Gal 5:19-21
Infants are not any of these.

 2007/1/1 21:03Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
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 Re:

Quote:
Quote:
Can you give me a biblical definition of what you mean by 'the will'?


Your will is your intension, or your desire, or in todays venacular; it's what you want.


Was this my 'biblical definition'that I asked for? :-?


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Ron Bailey

 2007/1/2 5:00Profile
PreachParsly
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 Re:

Quote:
No, they are not carnal, [b]but only natural,[/b]



I guess what confused me is that in the previous post you said "This is the same as being carnal."

Reguardless, it proves the point that children are "natural."

Quote:
1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.


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Josh Parsley

 2007/1/2 11:53Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
PreachParsly wrote:
Quote:
No, they are not carnal, [b]but only natural,[/b]



I guess what confused me is that in the previous post you said "This is the same as being carnal."

Reguardless, it proves the point that children are "natural."

Quote:
1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.



That is a diferent greek word that I gave. The one I gave means instinctive, as the one from the verse that you gave means sensual, Giveing over the the emotions.
The differenc is that infants' emotional maturity hasn't, um, mutured.
However, An infant does live and react with the innate reflexes that all humans have from birth; this is why instinctive is a better discription than sensual.

Furthermore, when I said, "This is the same as being carnal." I was probly talking about a diferent Greek word for natural than I am now.

 2007/1/2 20:08Profile





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