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Discussion Forum : General Topics : They sold their souls for Rock N' Roll

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Yeshuasboy
Member



Joined: 2006/6/10
Posts: 668
Northern Rockies, BC, Canada

 Re:

Amen Krispy,

A thoughtful post...for Christ Jesus suffered and was raised from the dead, and is now at the Father's right side...He died for sinners...ALL sinners...May I be obedient to pray for whom the Spirit leads me to pray for...And by the way, I wish I had half the musical talent these guys have...well, to a certain extent that is ;-)
The Lord continually bless you Krispy,
richie


_________________
Richie

 2006/11/17 15:52Profile
Yeshuasboy
Member



Joined: 2006/6/10
Posts: 668
Northern Rockies, BC, Canada

 Re:

Quote:

crsschk wrote:
Brothers, can we make a collective effort to pray for him specifically for a season?


Yes, I will pray in faith to the Lord for Mr. Osbourne's salvation. I "know" God's arm is not too short to save.
God bless you,
richie


_________________
Richie

 2006/11/17 16:00Profile









 Re:

What I wouldnt give to be as eloquent as Mike!

I think my perceived softness on people like Dickinson, Dio... even Ozzy... is because I really feel a tremendous sorrow for them. I dont feel much sympathy for Hinn and others because they should know better. They have the truth in their hands, yet they reject it.

What an intelligent and well spoken gentleman Ronnie James Dio is (for those who dont know, Dio replaced Ozzy as lead singer for Black Sabbath for a couple of years)... and I see people like that I think "How can they be so intelligent, yet so blind?"

Bands like Guns-n-Roses... not much going on intellectually with [i]those[/i] guys... but some of these guys in rock music are very intelligent people. Very well spoken. And perhaps because back in the day I did worship them I now have a burden for them.

It wouldnt matter to me if Eddie Van Halen ever played another note... wouldnt it be wonderful to see him surrender to Christ? Wouldnt it be wonderful to see Nicko McBain put his sticks down and walk away from Iron Maiden?

I know Stryper draws mixed feelings from the Christian community... and thank God they finally ditched the bumble-bee suits, hairspray & make-up... But I remember back around 1985 or so reading an interview with Motley Crue, and they were on tour with who else? Stryper. Stryper was opening for them on a few dates. I knew of Stryper, heard some of their stuff. Didnt pay much attention to them... they looked to pretty to be guys, ya know. But one comment Vince Neil made I'll never forget. They were talking about partying, and girls lining up after the show for alcohol and sex... and the interviewer asked Vince if Stryper ever joined them. Vince said something like "No man, they're boring dudes! They're 'born agains', so they go to their bus and drink milk or something... sing Kumbya... pray. But they are cool guys."

Now... Stryper probably got criticized in some circles for being unequally yoked with Motley Crue and some other secular metal bands... and Stryper now admits (now that they have matured in their walk with the Lord) that they didnt always live out thier witness perfectly (who does?). But they had an impact on someone who has lived an incredibly debauched lifestyle. Vince Neil. Who else in the church could have gotten close enough to Vince Neil to be a witness to him? Who else? In that respect, love 'em or hate 'em... Stryper were missionaries to the lost.

... and the church sat back and criticized them.

What was the church doing to reach Vince Neil? Or Twisted Sister... Maiden... Ratt... Skid Row... WASP... Quiet Riot...Guns-n-Roses... Cinderella... Krokus...?

I tell you, Stryper did more to reach those people than anyone in the church. I'm not saying the ends justify the means. Personally, I think Stryper should have looked more like men than they did... and backed off of the spandex... but the fact is, they were in the middle of it, and they took a stand for Christ. Everyone in the metal community who brushed shoulders with those guys [b]knew[/b] there was something different about the way they lived their lives. Interview after interview with other bands, I heard the same things being said about Stryper. "Their different."

How many people say that about us? How many people are we reaching in the metal community? Any? I wonder... when was the last time you went to an outdoor metal fest and handed out tracts in the crowd? Or is it too loud for your ears?

Instead of condemning musical styles, get over it and get out there and find people in that lifestyle and be a witness.

Krispy

 2006/11/17 16:16
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Hey Krisp,

As far as Twisted Scripture (oops...I mean "Sister", sorry) goes, it is my understanding that Dee Snyder comes from a very evangelical backround. I think his dad is a pastor. He grew up on Long Island, New York, not far from where I grew up. He was on the radio alot, especially on the Howard Stern show, back before he (Stern) became immensely popular and totally debauched.

Just thought I'd add that little factoid.

Blessings,

Brother Paul


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Paul Frederick West

 2006/11/17 17:07Profile
inotof
Member



Joined: 2005/1/7
Posts: 267
Morehead, KY

 Sorry All

First of all let me apologize to any that I offended with my first post, Krispy, sorry man, I did not intentially single you out, and I am sorry, I took a phrase that hit me wrong without examaning the context of the conversation. Forgive me. I’m usually not one to simply jump the gun and respond to something ½ cocked.
Secondly, Krispy Wrote: For those of you who very vocally come out against Iron Maiden, Elton John, etc... when was the last time you spent time on your knees praying for their salvation?

I ask that of myself as well. When I come out strongly against Joyce Meyer, or Warren, or Hinn... whoever it may be... have I also been on my knees praying for them? Most of the time, yes, but sadly... not always”

Thank You for that Steve! That, I think was the point I was trying to make, yet I allowed my anger to respond rather than my heart.

See, here’s the skinny, I’m a musician, I have been for 10 years. I love to play, I’ve only known playing in the house of the Lord, to the Lord. I have never taken a lesson, it just happened one night and has grown.
In some circles, my instrument is simply tolerated, others it is a called the a tool of the devil and I am seen as a sinner for even wanting to play, still in some it is celebrated. If you haven’t guessed, I’m a drummer.
Music is extremely personal to me. Wether you believe it or not, music does influence us in ways that nothing else can. It can move us to tears, serves as proper motivation to bench 305, it can be the boost that causes us to run the full 5 miles before we cash in. So when I think about the discussions that go on about it, sometimes it makes me angry, because like Eric Lindell, I can sense God’s pleasure when I play. No matter if it’s Hillsong, The Hinsons, Pillar or Promise Keepers.
So, I get a little standoffish, when it comes to music, those of you who play might understand. So I’m sorry for my reaction. Let us pray for all of those who are in the field of Rock and roll from Abba to Zappa, they need it.
As for the judging, your right, no here has ever judged weather someone else is saved, that is God alone’s decision. However can we all agree that we can judge, yes we’re even required to judge the Spirit behind the music, CCM or not, what Spirit it driving the tunes?
I’ll probably bow out for awhile again, until I can learn to think before I type. Peace and Grace! D~


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David

 2006/11/17 17:37Profile
myfirstLove
Member



Joined: 2005/11/26
Posts: 496


 Re:

not saying that we should judge someone's salvation, but, you can surely know if one is a christian by their fruit. didn't paul say that some have fallen away from the faith. that sounds like judging someone's life in Christ. seeing if they are really of Christ or not. you can look at someone's life and speech and know if they are truly in the faith.

2 Timothy 4:10


10 for Demas has forsaken me, [b]having loved this present world[/b], and has departed for Thessalonica—Crescens for Galatia, Titus for Dalmatia.

you can look at a someone's life and see that they love this present world more than God. just like paul saw that in demas.

not only are you suppose to judge teaching, but also christian's lifestyle. if it is not according to Christ, we are not suppose to fellowship with them.

1 Corinthians 5:11


11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.

1 John 2:15
Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

well this verse exposes a lot of christian bands. you can tell that many christian bands are in it for themselves and that they do love the world. it is very obviouse, but many christians are so blind to the harlotry of most muscians because they love their music.

if you can tell that people are using Jesus name for their fame, why support them by buying their music. this should grieve us to where we do not even want to buy their stuff.

yes, i agree lets pray for these rock stars like ozzy and them, but we also should be immensly grieve with their lifestyle that is loudly agaist Christ. the sad thing is, a lot of christians are so into their music and talents that it blinds them to the lostness of their souls( muscians), where they are not broken for them, because they take delight in their music and talented gifts. i feel for muscians. many are lost and i believe that a lot of christians don't pray for them because their busy enjoying their music that it has blind them to the heart of these lost souls.

yes, some might be intellectual, but it is worldly intellect that profits to NOTHING. human wisdom is dung and should not be look upon as something great. it doesn't matter how smart someone is because human intellect is prideful and about self. if they were so smart they would see that even their itellect is dung and leads to nothing and would be seeking Christ.


_________________
Lisa

 2006/11/17 18:40Profile
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

...not to distract from the flow but needed 2 seconds to notice this...

Quote:
(music)...serves as proper motivation to bench 305



Nice job inotof!

MC


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Mike Compton

 2006/11/17 19:05Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

MyFirstLove wrote:

Quote:
human wisdom is dung and should not be look upon as something great. it doesn't matter how smart someone is because human intellect is prideful and about self. if they were so smart they would see that even their itellect is dung and leads to nothing and would be seeking Christ.



Now this is what I like to hear! All things apart from Christ are absolute vanity. Dung, as my sister so plainly said. I count it all as dung too, all the 'intelligent' Iron Maiden lyrics, the architectural wonder of skyscrapers and bridges, the sports world, astrophysics, wall street, politics, whatever - it's all perishing dung outside of Christ and meaningless. I need to die daily to it all. Do you think Paul went to the Olympics? Or to see Greek tragedies? In truth, when a person gets born again of the Spirit, all that stuff starts to fade away and lose its charm. Perhaps, not all of it goes away immediately - but a holy progression that takes you further and further away from the world has nonetheless started. As the knowledge of Christ and the light of God's Word spreads deeper within you, the other stuff grows dim. Sports, fleshly music, TV, fashion, they all lose their allurements.

What would you think if you found out that Ravenhill was secretly a sports nut? That he cheered for the Cowboys and spoke of his affinity from the pulpit? Immediately, my respect for him as a holy, sanctified man of God would decrease. I would think "No, he is still clinging to a part of the world. He doesn't have the right to get up and preach surrender. He doesn't have a right to tell me to divorce completely from the world."

And you, secretly, would think the same.

How then can we condone anyone who professes Christ yet remains yoked to the world? It doesn't mean we stop loving them. If anything, we pray for them more fervently! But as far as respect, as for honor, as for a lifestyle worthy of imitation? No, no, no. What good are they? Savourless salt, fit for the dunghill. Their testimony of Christ means noting. Friends, until the church completely divorces itself from the world (even from the 'harmless' stuff), we will never grow in holiness and wisdom. We will certainly never experience personal revival. We will always remain spiritual dwarves, spouting out empty theology and opinions, a grief both to man and to God.

(edit) Please don't spank me! I'm only typing the truth that you all already know. Oh, that we would live to be humble and lowly and dead to the world and full of God's Word and walking day by day in the Spirit. Liberated from the devil, and enslaved to the Mighty One of Israel. People would want to be like us! The Jews would be jealous! Imagine that!

Brother Paul


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Paul Frederick West

 2006/11/17 19:15Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

A dear brother sent this to me awhile back. I've always hung on to it. Since the topic of this thread has to do with selling souls and rock and roll, I figured it was appropriate! Notice, not all on this list were rock musicians, but you'll get the point...

JOHN LENNON: Some years before, during his interview with an American Magazine, he said: "Christianity will end, it will disappear. I do not have to argue about that. I am certain. Jesus was ok, but his subjects were too simple, Today we are more famous than Him" (1966). Lennon, after saying that the Beatles were more famous than Jesus Christ, was shot six times.



TANCREDO NEVES (President of Brazil): During the Presidential campaign, he said if he got 500,000 votes from his party, not even God would remove him from Presidency. Sure he got the votes, but he got sick a day before being made President, then he died.



CAZUZA (Bi-sexual Brazilian composer, singer and poet): During a show in Caneco ( Rio de Janeiro ), whilst smoking his cigarette, he puffed out some smoke into the air and said: "God, that's for you." He died at the age of 32 of AIDS in a horrible manner.



THE MAN WHO BUILT TITANIC: After the construction of Titanic, a reporter asked him how safe the Titanic would be. With an ironic tone he said: "Not even God can sink it" The result: I think you all know what happened to the Titanic.



MARILYN MONROE: She was visited by Billy Graham during a presentation of a show. He said the Spirit of God had sent him to preach to her. After hearing what the Preacher had to say, she said: "I don't need your Jesus". A week later, she was found dead in her apartment.



BON SCOTT: The ex-vocalist of the AC/DC. On one of his 1979 songs he sang: "Don't stop me, I'm going down all the way, down the highway to hell". On the 19th of February 1980, Bon Scott was found dead, he had been choked by his own vomit.



CAMPINAS/SP IN 2005 In Campinas, Brazil a group of friends, drunk, went to pick up a friend. The mother accompanied her to the car and was so worried about the drunkenness of her friends and she said to the daughter - holding her hand, who was already seated in the car: "MY DAUGHTER, GO WITH GOD AND MAY HE PROTECT YOU." She responded: "ONLY IF HE (GOD) TRAVELS IN THE TRUNK, CAUSE INSIDE HERE IT'S ALREADY FULL" Hours later, news came by that they had been involved in a fatal accident, everyone had died, the car could not be recognized what type of car it had been, but surprisingly, the trunk was intact. The police said there was no way the trunk could have remained intact. To their surprise, inside the trunk was a crate of eggs, none were broken.


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Paul Frederick West

 2006/11/17 21:12Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

Still quite interesting reading through all this. Paul, I do agree and would think Steve would just as well with what you have brought forth here. Seems different in perspective, the intelligence that Krispy (Steve) is alluding to is almost paradoxical ... Isn't one of the detriment's to a lot of what is passing for the sheer reality of scriptural truth in our day very much a lack of just [i]thinking[/i]? Not the measure on a grading scale of intellect, but ... Let me try it this way, the differences Krispy pointed out for instance between say Twisted Sister and Rush (I know, we have touched on this earlier) and that of an easy believism from ... anybody and a Tozer or a Chambers. This sort of contemplation, (Strange it is that Dee Synder seemed to be pretty articulate off stage ... another thing that needs to be caught, bit of acting there in a lot of this.)

Quickly, Krispy, a great deal in common from our respective era's and think you have really expressed a great deal very well, Stryper without a doubt had a very huge impact on me, they were something of a bridge while I wrestled between a growing urgency to know God and hang on or try and make sense of what at the time I thought was my goal in life, to be a guitarist and a 'Rock Star', more on the former than the latter. Strange times, but the Lord through Stryper did get quite a bit in at even the subconscious level. Your retelling about their progression was dead on accurate. Great stuff brother.

To move the pendulum back a bit more to where Paul is speaking from and alluded to how many other aspects there are yet still to all of this.

Pride. There is something very inherent in this that sits perhaps under the radar, that desire for accolades and applause, that want of being noticed, [i]loved[/i] by adoring fans ... to [i]feel[/i] that, to hear it redounding in our ears of ones 'greatness' for natural giftings that have been developed or even developed efforts that can equal the same occasionally. How much of this is still yet evident in the 'crossover' culture that finds a borrowing and stealing of the same thing from 'Christian' to secular? Hard to make that dogmatic across the board, someone like Stryper in their hey day, a guess is a mixture of both and could almost but wonder at how much they had to work through to get to where they later ended up. A great deal of processing must go on in this walk, a great deal of [i]thinking[/i], is this not the most intelligent intelligence there is that we adhere to? Christianity is intelligence of the highest sort, seems absurd to even have to make mention of it. What kind of intellect is it that confounds the wise and the wisdom of this world? Do very much appreciate where Paul is going with this and found a lot of the same truth in;

Quote:
In truth, when a person gets born again of the Spirit, all that stuff starts to fade away and lose its charm. Perhaps, not all of it goes away immediately - but a holy progression that takes you further and further away from the world has nonetheless started. As the knowledge of Christ and the light of God's Word spreads deeper within you, the other stuff grows dim. Sports, fleshly music, TV, fashion, they all lose their allurements.



It does lose it's charm, at least that is what I probably could have made an easier mention of far back here. Paul, I do think that something may be amiss here though;

Quote:
What would you think if you found out that Ravenhill was secretly a sports nut? That he cheered for the Cowboys and spoke of his affinity from the pulpit? Immediately, my respect for him as a holy, sanctified man of God would decrease. I would think "No, he is still clinging to a part of the world. He doesn't have the right to get up and preach surrender. He doesn't have a right to tell me to divorce completely from the world."

Quote:
How then can we condone anyone who professes Christ yet remains yoked to the world?



Not sure this is a condoning of any of it, but perhaps we may be giving off that impression. Maybe Krispy's comment earlier about having a sorrow and an 'empathy' for those that we once were close associates with (At least in our love for their music and practical imitation) is a bit closer to home. Mentioned before how difficult it was attempting to elucidate about all this, still find it so.

I don't know that there is a 'how to' of approach toward all of this, a great deal of expression is from our own experience and how we came through it all, not a giving of allowance or approval per se.

One of the thoughts left percolating today on this matter was that of "write offs", how much fodder can be given to denouncing what we do not really understand, to go about with picket signs ranting about going to hell with those who think it is something of a party in the first place is really quite silly and ridiculous. Just as much as providing documentaries on this 'great evil' ... well of course it is, but where does it stem from? How well would an accurate presentation of the pride of life or pride in the human heart give sway to even Christians who would rather in truth hear the dirt of those nasty rock and rollers? Here we are, a great number of "such were some of you's" and the ease of writing off any soul seems only exacerbated by even the well intentioned. It is the sensationalism and dubiousness that bothers me more than anything. To equate everything to this black and white 'simplicity' of 'this is of the devil' and the Christian can take pride in his highmindeness from having either been delivered or fortunate enough to have missed the drugs and associated baggage is a bit too easy. Please note that I am again off into generalities here, especially regarding Paul, you are a great benefit and mentor to many here, especially to me, still believe we are just coming at this from different angles.

Still left wondering if we have finished stripping off the paint of all of this yet.


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Mike Balog

 2006/11/18 1:40Profile





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