SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Looking for free sermon messages?
Sermon Podcast | Audio | Video

Discussion Forum : General Topics : They sold their souls for Rock N' Roll

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 Next Page )
PosterThread
mamaluk
Member



Joined: 2006/6/12
Posts: 524


 Re:

Mike C

Quote:
I say abusive because indulging children, (of all ages) is a form of abuse.



very well phrased,

..along the same thought, indulging worshippers, is a form of abuse (distracting attentiveness away from the spirit and the truth of God)

Yeshuaboy,

Quote:
Honestly, I don't even like to say I'm a Christian so I don't...I'll let someone else say that of me, but I won't say it of myself.



yeah, unhappily, I sort of know how you meant, I'm pretty much the same way nowadays

May GOd help us on SI to defend His Name and His Word to His glory always, not much else is that important or worth defending..

musing...(copying Crsschk) :)






 2006/11/17 8:39Profile









 Re:

Matt... welcome to the site! Glad to have you.

I'm going to take issue with several things you said. Please understand that I don't like hard core metal, grind core, whatever they call it. Never liked thrash... or rap... or the elevator music that CCM top 40 has become... so I'm not coming from a defensive position on this at all. I'll be honest, I do like melodic metal. But I also like jazz, classical and bluegrass. I just want to say that up front.

You talk a lot about idols, and truly Christians have made idols of CCM performers. People have also made idols of Billy Graham, DL Moody, etc. But I'm not going to condemn DL Moody because many have made an idol of him. People made an idol of Keith Green... and he chewed them out for it. An idol doesn't usually declare itself an idol... people do.

Paul was questioned extensively about eating meat that was sacrificed to idols. His response was two-fold. He declared there is one God, and idols were nothing. The only value they have is what people give them. So, therefore, meat was meat regardless of what some people did with it. For example, in India, they believe cows are reincarnations of dead people, and they worship them. They would never consider eating them. I say... let's have steak! You see nothing wrong with eating a cow, and you probably don't think twice that on the other side of the world... it's consider sacred.

Thats how I look at music. I did give up music for a period of time. It was huge in my life. Only over the past 5 years have I been allowed by the Holy Spirit to listen to certain styles of music. I don't idolize the music, I don't give it priority in my life. It doesn't rule me. And I realize that for some... it is a real issue.

That brings us to Paul's second point about meat. If someone is offended by our freedom to eat steak (and by offended he meant caused to stumble in their walk with the Lord), then out of love the one who has freedom should restrain themselves from flaunting their freedom.

So if you were at my house, and I knew that some styles of music might cause you to stumble... I wouldn't put on X-Sinner. Just like if someone had freedom to have a beer now and then, they would be a fool to exercise that freedom in front of someone who struggled with alcoholism before they were saved.

You stated that your God is not a violent God... I wonder, have you read the OT? Or how about the Book of the Revelation? You're God has the capacity to be extremely violent. We all need to fear His wrath.

Krispy

 2006/11/17 8:53
inotof
Member



Joined: 2005/1/7
Posts: 267
Morehead, KY

 Re:

Well its been a few months, almost a year since i posted on this web site and with good cause. I am amazed at the fact that so many that have posted on this thread use the "i don't judge" philosphy on the musicians of Iron Madien and the like, but will call men like Rick Warren and Benny Hinn apostates and continually run them in the ground. Where is our head at? No corrupt communication should leave our mouths but only that which is edifying...none should enter our ears. hate to say folks but theres a bit of a double standard going on here. maybe we should spend a little less time asking what's wrong with rock music and ask our sevles, "what's right abot it?" God is passionate for His glory to shine in our lives, are we? D~


_________________
David

 2006/11/17 9:00Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

Hi Richie,

Sigh ... (A happy sigh). Back a few replies there was a mention or two towards this, with Neil and a mention of the dangers of assuming too much ... Hopefully, we are all getting a bit better at this style of communicating but still, realize I can add my own fodder here. As I mentioned to our brother Neil, there is a launching off into 'generalizations' and "[i]Not trying to be pointed or accusatory, just food for thought.[/i]"


There is the great "of course" of the matter... Richie, something I am beginning to notice and have had pointed out, is a tendency at times to 'talk in shadows', not always being quite clear. Recognize it more and more, think I may start off at a point and get lost along the way, dropping out details, not filling out others, have this apparently strange ability to have 10 different thoughts running concurrently but, lacking the ability to draw them together cohesively. Besides that, am just plain long-winded! :-)

So no, dear brother it was not to those ends...

Quote:
"I didn't know what to think"


Ah, happy perplexity! How often is this my guttural prayer, "Father ..." followed up with the same sentiment. Richie, I had similar musings, perhaps it's the 'kind' of past associations that gives lift to the heart to hear a profession no matter how muddled ... there is still yet time in Gods economy of spiritual understanding, who knows, perhaps someday Niko may cross into these borders and find the penetrating truths that our souls long for and have been finding here. On the flip-side as MC well pointed out, perhaps not... One of the thought's that crossed the mind as I left here yesterday morning was the strangeness of how even a heavy metal band can at times preach better than some ministers, strange sermons that grabbed my attention were these. It wasn't a preacher, a Christian, a church, a repeated prayer, a methodology that saved this soul. It was bit's and pieces along the way, of those mentioned there was the one brother somewhat relentlessly pursuing (by the way, our path's finally did meet up in Gods providence, via email a few months back) and to be sure he planted seeds that lied dormant for many, many years afterwards. But it was God Himself that brought everything to it's own crisis in His mysterious way.

More strange was, why after so great a salvation would He then throw me to the dogs of the bizarre world of prosperity and Word of Faith and all the spurious confusion and associated baggage for a prolonged season? Hindsight is showing more and more that incredible 'foolishness' of the Lord (1Co 1:25), of the many one that was created was a hungering after the purity of truth and a creation of that oft-putting, pit in the stomach, sometimes inner revulsion that MC termed as well about the "happy song" ... it just disagrees at that point, inwardly.

Thank God! Brothers, Brethren, sisters, this dwelling in unity,...

[i]Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity![/i]

Krispy is right, Paul is correct, Ritchie and MC, Neil even ;-) how this dwelling and elucidating, finishing each others thought's and complimenting them, giving each other pause to consider, challenging our own assumptions. It is mightily impressive not that we are all aping each other with a rah, rah! Me too! But driving at the same bottom, getting more and more honest about the great things of the Lord, what He is really after.

A bit of exuberance leaking out this morning, I agree wholeheartedly with Krispy, this is truly a great unraveling here and how thankful I am for those than can come along and help sort out my own perplexities of verbalization.

Quote:
which means thinking or considering...now contrast this to the A-musement of music...amusement meaning to suspend or stop thinking.



Ah brother, is this not the very truth of so much? In regards to music it [i]can[/i] be something of a giving over of the emotions for well, manipulation ... Ah, need to pull out some Chambers and bring it back to all this, think he really drives home the point far better... Part of it is in this tweaking of places that we do not know deep below our conscience. Proving my still scattered brain approach, earlier had mentioned the TV and drama and didn't quite finish the thought. The other night was in a pensive, contemplative 'mood' if you will, long exhausting day, but fruitful, productive, overwhelming with responsibilities and yet ... [i]the Lord[/i], His peace... Watching my beloved Los Tiburones (The Sharks) while we were eating dinner and my step-son and the wife have been watching the series "Jericho" (Yes, a whole other topic here, but for the moment bear with me). So we switched over ... Have caught a few bit's and pieces of it, enough to pick up on what is going on with the premise of it all. As I mentioned, TV is just another one of those things that is both arbitrary, diabolical ... trash it, destroy it, abstain from it ... the history channel? Sigh, we certainly live in interesting times, the mud is thicker by the day, the confusion and crassness, mingled morals and sensual allurements .... But, hey, a historical walk through the land that Paul traveled! ... I digress. So the Sharks won (But of course! Sorry Krispy, no "Canes" this year brother) and I flipped the evil box mechanism over to "Jericho", ah, see how subtle? To see what would happen to the bridge they were defending ... It went to some scenes of a particular woman who apparently lost her fiancée' in a plane crash from what I could gather and who kept having apparitions of him, speaking to her... At one point it cut over to finding her taking a seat in a church ...

Well, enough of the particulars, what I began to notice was how my own inward emotions were being tweaked with, how I was actually being 'sucked into it' almost unaware, now not completely otherwise I would have likely given it no notice whatsoever. Again, it is this observation from the perspective of abstinence which doesn't mean anything more than being away from something in large part for a rather long period of time. It was at some point there was this 'catching' of myself and recognizing how I had gone from the former .. sense of the Lord's subtle, underlying peace to another realm if you will, just from a television program that is not even true! Why should I [i]allow[/i] myself to be mishandled in such a way over something that while mildly 'entertaining' never happened and is just a creation of some creative mind, it's not the matter of whether it's moral or amoral, nothing sinister in the content and perhaps there is always something to glean, such as why is the world so caught up and played with like puppets on a string to begin to believe that all the fantasy that television programs by and large [i]are[/i] actually reflect reality? Is the world really over run with dramatics? Crime scene investigation seems to be the hot thing at the moment, all the glamorizing and ... Aren't we right back to the whole matter of 'over the top'? Ask our dear brother Paul about the messiness of decaying human flesh as a mortician and see how well this fit's the mold of superstar, fantasy investigative practices.

Doubtful the exaggerations, but again, how much of reality is reflected and how much is created drama effecting the world's thinking... "Based on reality" is far too often nothing more than a crock ...

"Satanic" ?


_________________
Mike Balog

 2006/11/17 9:01Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

([i]edit: Forgot the quote;[/i])

Quote:
Well its been a few months, almost a year since i posted on this web site and with good cause. I am amazed at the fact that so many that have posted on this thread use the "i don't judge" philosphy on the musicians of Iron Madien and the like, but will call men like Rick Warren and Benny Hinn apostates and continually run them in the ground. Where is our head at?





Good to hear from you brother, but must ask, did you really read through [i]all[/i] of this?

Deleted your other post of the same, hoping you might continue on here, since it is the same posting and would keep the discussion more cohesive. Believe we are off on completely different lines of 'judging' here than that which can be addressed in such a slight fashion ...


_________________
Mike Balog

 2006/11/17 9:07Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

Krispy stole some of my same reaction;

Quote:
And my God is not a violent God.



Hard to add but, The Revelation of Jesus Christ also comes to mind...

Matt, I do understand where your intention may still lie in that, heavy metal is in great part [i]violent[/i], what other music makes someone turn into the equivalent of a bobble-head doll? Surprised I didn't knock myself silly sometimes, and standing in front of 4, 10" speakers, controlling a power that is ... [i]felt[/i]... Talk about your rush of adrenaline ... Quite a few aspects to all of this...


_________________
Mike Balog

 2006/11/17 9:21Profile









 Re:

... I said I wouldn't judge the salvation of Iron Maiden's drummer. Thats between him and God. Do I think he should continue on with them? Absolutely not.

Have I condoned Iron Maiden? Absolutely not. I just called for some intellectual honesty.

As for Hinn and Warren... here's a challenge. Find one post out of over 2,000 posts I've made where I judged their salvation. I have not. In fact, I've made it clear that I do not sit in judgement of their salvation.

However, we are commanded in scripture to judge their teachings against scripture, and I do so.

If you're gonna say I said something, at least get it right.

Krispy

 2006/11/17 9:27
Yeshuasboy
Member



Joined: 2006/6/10
Posts: 668
Northern Rockies, BC, Canada

 Re:

Thanks for the reply Mike. You know, I wonder if Niko was preached a "synthetic Gospel" like I first was....that the law is done away with,etc, etc..."Don't be so serious Richie", many would say to me. I wasted so many years Mike not taking God seriously.
I just wanted to say, it's pretty much a "given" for me to say that I'm probably the "chiefest of sinners" out of all that participate in these forums...and I indeed am not bragging when I mention this, but say this to my shame.
If the Lord really wants to use Niko as an instrument of righteousness to glorify Him, then Praise God brother. His thoughts are surely higher than mine!
Years ago, I thought how great it would be if the Lord met Ozzy like He did Saul on the road to Damascus...I would remember him in my prayers, but I haven't now for long while...this is probably to my shame too.
May I say Mike that I respect your opinion, and I love you as a brother. Feel free to rebuke me openly or privately whenever the Lord puts it on your heart...for I have much to learn and much to be thankful for, and honestly there are times when I forget these great truths...again to my shame.
As far as inotof's comment is concerned, I would like to say this: I will only speak for myself concerning the matter of judging righteously and unrighteously. I know that their is a great difference...one that is of the heart, is of motive...one is carnal, one is of God, etc. I love the book of James because he calls it as led by the Holy Spirit. I am sure some back in his day disapproved of his rebukes, while others would respond as the psalmist in Psalm 141:5. Regardless, Godly rebuke is necessary ...I praise God for it because I continually need it in order to keep on the path of the straight and narrow. Others more educated than myself can speak of this subject in a more concise matter. I agree much of what is documented in:[url=http://cicministry.org/commentary/issue94.htm]Discernment In An Age Of Disception[/url]. Truly sheep can be naive concerning this issue, but that's why Godly leadership is so important, and honestly there's not alot of that in the world, which is why it is important to have a "berean-like" mentality concerning the deep truths of the Scriptures. If I'm a "little toe" I need an "eye" to tell me "Sripturely" which way I'm going, etc lest I fall into some ditch. I need the Truth that sets me free regardless of what it will cost me!...And I thank God for it even if it makes me suffer. Pray that I don't run from the crosses the King of Kings asks me to carry. As the saints of old used to say like William Penn and John Owen, "No Cross, No Crown."
Have a blessed day in the Lord Mike,
richie


_________________
Richie

 2006/11/17 11:11Profile









 Re:

Here's a question for all of us... myself included.

For those of you who very vocally come out against Iron Maiden, Elton John, etc... when was the last time you spent time on your knees praying for their salvation?

I ask that of myself as well. When I come out strongly against Joyce Meyer, or Warren, or Hinn... whoever it may be... have I also been on my knees praying for them? Most of the time, yes, but sadly... not always.

Ozzy is not the enemy. (I wish he was cuz I don't think he could fight his way out of paper bag) Benny Hinn is not the enemy. They are used of the enemy, but they are just pawns. We need to keep that in mind. I've seen Iron Maiden lead singer Bruce Dickinson interviewed in the past... he's a gentleman, and very well spoken. Misguided and lost to be sure... but when you hear someone like that speak you realize... they are being used, but they are not the enemy. During my short chats with the former drummer of Skynyrd he was always very polite and friendly. A very warm hearted guy. He's just a man.

Let's be focussed on the real enemy, Satan.

Let's pray for those we're discussing. Oh that they would all come to know the truth. Not so that they would become famous testimonies... but so they wont burn in hell.

Krispy

 2006/11/17 11:54
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

Quote:
Years ago, I thought how great it would be if the Lord met Ozzy like He did Saul on the road to Damascus...I would remember him in my prayers, but I haven't now for long while...this is probably to my shame too.



Quote:
I ask that of myself as well. When I come out strongly against Joyce Meyer, or Warren, or Hinn... whoever it may be... have I also been on my knees praying for them? Most of the time, yes, but sadly... not always.

Ozzy is not the enemy.



Interesting that this came up twice. I too am at fault, there was a point not too far back, may have made mention of it even here about praying for Ozzy's salvation ... something about the heart of this man, despite all the theatrics and whatnot, all the rightful things he brought upon his self but far more the misunderstandings and attribution of being poster boy for satan himself ... It gets right back full circle to where a great deal of this whole thread is aimed at, honesty. Feel the explanatory impulse to have to add, 'let's not make him any more different than anyone else' but how wonderful a testimony and praise to God would this great misfit in the eyes of the world (and much of Christendom) be ...

Brothers, can we make a collective effort to pray for him specifically for a season?

By the way, would be dishonest not to mention that I was very much a huge Randy Rhoads fan, even bought one of the first 100 made flying "V" models that bears his imprint and design. His early death was devastating to me as he had become something of an 'idol' (Guitar wise, even had my hair cut the same way) and even more so after his death. Interesting also that this is very close to the timing of Iron Maiden's hey day and by that I mean also when I was being witnessed to ... Have been tempted in the past to play "Dee", the instrumental ode to his mother to some of the aforementioned naysayers of all this 'devil music' to see their reaction (It is a classical piece for everyone else) and then drop the bombshell of just whose band he was in...

There must be some raised eyebrows out there reading all this wondering how we could be associating so many things in this manner, especially here. Still find it a bit difficult, having been away from all this so long to bring out many of these things without giving off the wrong impression, like Krispy stated, this is not a condoning of anything, it is a vehicle for driving ourselves to be honest about how things are, not how we might assume them to be.

Do find it interesting that so many ex-head-bangers are congregating together in these parts. :-)

Krispy, pretty cool about Aritumus and well said about Bruce Dickerson as well, you have the right attitude brother ... just men, just like us, just as we once were.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2006/11/17 15:51Profile





©2002-2019 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy