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PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
Rule of thumb: Lousy music played by solid players is still lousy music. Can I be wrong about that?



Well, have you ever heard John Williams (the guitarist) play Ferdinand Carulli? It may change your perspective. On the other hand, solid music played by [i]lousy[/i] performers (i.e. Gesualdo sung by a high-school choir) may render the impression of horrid music to untrained ears. Do you realize what J.S. Bach's [i]Saint Matthew's Passion[/i] (In my opinion, the grandest, noblest, most profound and epic musical masterpiece in all of Western history) would sound like if performed by a substandard double-choir and double-orchestra? Worse than anything you could imagine. But I've heard some musically-inferior Telemann motets (not at all the calibre of Bach) sung by great choirs that make the music sound first-rate, exhillarating!

I think the key is in the interpretational skill and virtuosity of the musicians, and in the concept of the conductor. Usually, the more great and profound the music is, the more great and profound a performer is needed to keep the music from falling flat and betraying its quality.

Of course, the conductor plays the most important part. The glue, the pulse, the life. So many technically-polished Christian musicians getting up and performing [i]great[/i] music, though without inspired interpretation and minus the conductor. So what do we get? Bach played by Lucy the gorilla.

Or the stuff that passes for worship nowadays on the radio. Just my opinion.


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2006/11/6 20:00Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: The rise of choral music

From Kerry Livgren’s article:

Quote:
The whole genre seems to be designed to draw attention to the player rather than the music.


I think people are much more visual these days, and are accustomed to being entertained. The actual music is secondary.

Livgren seems to focus more on music in the media and commercial market; but there is a lot of great music happening that never hits either. Good musicians don’t bother themselves with being popular or making a big buck.(though it happens to a few) Their priority is making good music. So that’s maybe why many may think that only mediocre stuff exists these days.

Compton said:
Quote:
there is a small but steady growth in the interest of Choral music these days.


Choirs seem to be popping up all over the place. People still want to sing! I believe that community choirs are growing in popularity because they are either disappearing from the churches, or churches can’t maintain a good calibre. So sacred choral music is moving from the church to the community.

Choirs have a distinct advantage because practically anyone who likes to sing in a group can join one suitable to their level. You don’t have to be solo material. Probably the biggest hurdle to overcome is not so much in finding enough willing singers, but finding skilled directors - who will invest in the enormous task.

I’ve included a few selections of choral recordings – (just to add to Compton’s list of fine works).

Sacred choral music:
[url=http://mennolink.org/books/search.cgi?bk.stj.02.txt&track=2]Sing the Journey [/url]The director is Kenneth Nafziger of Eastern Mennonite University, Harrisburg, VA. Enjoy the samples.

Here two well-known Canadian ensembles combine to perform a collection of choral/brass hymn arrangements: [url=http://www.amazon.com/People-Canadian-Elmer-Iseler-Singers/dp/B000ETRIXO/sr=11-1/qid=1162860223/ref=sr_11_1/103-8979199-7587809 ]Canadian Brass with Elmer Iseler Singers[/url] Unforuntately no samples are provided.

I have a personal affection for this work because I have accompanied it for a children’s choir.[url=http://www.amazon.com/Britten-Choral-Works-II-Ceremony/dp/B000B86582/sr=1-8/qid=1162864409/ref=sr_1_8/103-8979199-7587809?ie=UTF8&s=music#moreAboutThisProduct]Benjamin Britten - Ceremony of Carols[/url] Enjoy the samples. Lovers of olde English should enjoy the lyrics. (found elsewhere on the web, no doubt)

And there's so much more...

Why not join a choir in your area? Be part of music -making, not just disguntled spectators of a our declining arts.


Diane


_________________
Diane

 2006/11/6 22:34Profile









 Re:

Quote:

PaulWest wrote:
Quote:
Rule of thumb: Lousy music played by solid players is still lousy music. Can I be wrong about that?



Well, have you ever heard John Williams (the guitarist) play Ferdinand Carulli? It may change your perspective. On the other hand, solid music played by [i]lousy[/i] performers (i.e. Gesualdo sung by a high-school choir) may render the impression of horrid music to untrained ears. Do you realize what J.S. Bach's [i]Saint Matthew's Passion[/i] (In my opinion, the grandest, noblest, most profound and epic musical masterpiece in all of Western history) would sound like if performed by a substandard double-choir and double-orchestra? Worse than anything you could imagine. But I've heard some musically-inferior Telemann motets (not at all the calibre of Bach) sung by great choirs that make the music sound first-rate, exhillarating!

I think the key is in the interpretational skill and virtuosity of the musicians, and in the concept of the conductor. Usually, the more great and profound the music is, the more great and profound a performer is needed to keep the music from falling flat and betraying its quality.

Of course, the conductor plays the most important part. The glue, the pulse, the life. So many technically-polished Christian musicians getting up and performing [i]great[/i] music, though without inspired interpretation and minus the conductor. So what do we get? Bach played by Lucy the gorilla.

Or the stuff that passes for worship nowadays on the radio. Just my opinion.



You make a good point.

Ever hear the Doxology played by a rock band --- for worship service? ---- I left


:-x

 2006/11/7 8:21
freedbyjc
Member



Joined: 2004/7/29
Posts: 204
Jacksonville. Florida

 Re:

Krispy... you have the patience of a saint! Awesome post and great presence...

So ORM, old buddy...

Quote:
Ever hear the Doxology played by a rock band --- for worship service? ---- I left

what was the contention that drove you away?

The ROCK band's version...or The Doxology?
The rock BAND's version...or The Doxology?
The rock band's VERSION...or The Doxology?
The rock band's version...or The DOXOLOGY?

We all receive music with our ears and must examine all music with our heart and soul. If the vessel is tainted then so will the final product be... no matter how pure the source.

All music has its place, its message and its audience ... we do not know the heart of the musician nor the worshipper unless we are they.

To [once more]quote Pogo...AGAIN... [i]We have met the enemy and it is us! [/i]


_________________
bill schnippert

 2006/11/7 8:51Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Krispy... you have the patience of a saint! Awesome post and great presence...



Could you tell my wife that please? She needs to be convinced! LOL

Doxology... Ya know, Petra ended their 1983 album Not Of This World with a very nice version of the Doxology done with synthesizers. While the Doxology is a great song of the faith, it is not the Word of God, not Holy Spirit inspired (at least not in the same way as God's Word is), and should not be treated as such. It is a wonderful song, but if someone has a vision for doing a different arraingement of it... so what? Let 'em. If someone doesnt like it, no one is forcing them to listen to it.

Krispy

 2006/11/7 9:20
freedbyjc
Member



Joined: 2004/7/29
Posts: 204
Jacksonville. Florida

 Re:

Me too, Bro'!

An old sweet soul once told us that "Our walk walks and our talk talks, but our walk talks a whole lot louder than our talk talks."

AMEN ... The Doxology ...

I'll always remember the beautiful teaching that took place one day in our Fellowship Hall when our [then] Minister of Music, just coming off of a European concert series [Florida Baptist Singing men], said that in every country they travelled to, before they ate any meal, the whole choir [40+] joined hands and sang the Doxology as a blessing l... Peter said that [b]every[/b] time the rest of the resturant or cafe would stop and join in...he said it was an awesome experience. We then joined hands and did the same thing and it WAS awesome!


_________________
bill schnippert

 2006/11/7 10:12Profile









 Re:

And it [i]can[/i] be a blessing! Absolutely. We're involved in a house church network, but every now and then my wife and I visit a traditional type church... mainly to meet other believers... and we love to visit smaller country churches that have some incredible congregational singing. I'm talking about folks that sing at the top of their lungs... with just a piano and maybe an acoustical guitar for accompanment. It's incredible. Here in the mountains of North Carolina there are a lot of great churches like that... you just have to find them (which can be tricky! ...lot's of back roads!) I like praise bands too... but there is nothing like a room full of country folks belting out some old hymns.

Krispy

 2006/11/7 11:00









 Re:

Quote:

KrispyKrittr wrote:
Quote:

Doxology... Ya know, Petra ended their 1983 album Not Of This World with a very nice version of the Doxology done with synthesizers. While the Doxology is a great song of the faith, it is not the Word of God, not Holy Spirit inspired (at least not in the same way as God's Word is), and should not be treated as such. It is a wonderful song, but if someone has a vision for doing a different arraingement of it... so what? Let 'em. If someone doesnt like it, no one is forcing them to listen to it.

Krispy



Ok, I'll bring my juice harp to your church or maybe my musical saw. Would you let me play the Doxology on either of them? How about every week I do that?

Naah, you wouldn't put up with that -- but ask yourself the question[S] why? Now answer all of them, honestly.

Don't disappoint me, Bro. The Dox is the word of God. Certainly you don't need scripture to support that.

I'm now assuming you to be "seeker sensitive" so I posit dollars to doughnuts you wouldn't let me play the traditional version of the Doxology on a grand organ for fear it would alienate the "pop/rock" section of your congregation. You'd probably tell me, "That's not where we want to go" not thinking how rock/pop inhibits worship.

Am I right or wrong?

:-o

 2006/11/7 11:20









 Re:

Ah... good morning Ormly! How are you today? Did you vote this morning? How's the weather down on your end of the state? Kinda rainy here. Didnt get too wet waiting to vote tho... Fortunately I got there early so I was in and out quickly.

Krispy

 2006/11/7 11:23









 Re:

Quote:

KrispyKrittr wrote:
Ah... good morning Ormly! How are you today? Did you vote this morning? How's the weather down on your end of the state? Kinda rainy here. Didnt get too wet waiting to vote tho... Fortunately I got there early so I was in and out quickly.

Krispy



Good morning my Brother,

Its wet over here...and coool.

I voted three days ago.

Its going to be real interesting, in light of end times thinking, to see how this election all pans out.

:-o ;-)

 2006/11/7 11:28





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