From the mouth the heart speaks
Yes! We can know whether or not we are saved or whether or not someone else is saved by what we say or what he or she says about the Person and work of Christ. But the Bible never lets that test stand alone. "He that [b]saith[/b], [i]I know Him[/i], [i][b]and keepeth not His commandments[/b][/i], [u]is a liar[/u], and the truth is not in him" (1 John 2:4). It is possible to profess to know Him but to deny Him by our deeds (Titus 1:16).
This is not to say that "one act of lawlessness" indicates that a person is lost. "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us" (1 John 1:8). The biblical indicator is whether or not we are "practicing" sin as a lifestyle - "Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness" (1 John 3:4 NASB).
Our growth in righteousness is progressive - and sometimes regressive - hence, "Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted" (Galatians 6:1).
Yes, we need to pray for Mel. And in so-doing, let us not forget to pray for all those who will now be ridiculed and whose faith will be called a "hoax"; that they will understand the nature of the battle to which we are called and that they will share the sufferings of Christ, and keep on rejoicing, so that also at the revelation of His glory they may rejoice with exultation (1 Peter 4:13).
Grace and peace
| 2006/8/1 10:35||Profile|
So while God was bringing me along, and helping me grow in grace, and convicting me of my racial attitudes... I wasnt saved? Is that what you're saying?
Answer the question directly... dont play word games. Yes or no?
| 2006/8/1 10:43|
When we say we are saved, does it mean saved from the wrath to come? Leonard Ravenhill asks in a sermon, what are we saved from, then list some of those things that we are not yet saved from.
Whilst we are saved from the wrath to come, there is still loss of reward spoken of in 1 Cor 3. Still, this deviates from the original thread. God bless.
| 2006/8/1 10:50||Profile|
I feel moved to get this thread back on track.
We do need to pray for Mel Gibson. I know not his heart, and he may be saved or he may not be. The fact is, we need to pray for him anyway, because prayer works. However famous this man may be, he still needs Jesus and that is all that counts.
I, like Mel, and many other brothers and sisters, have continually disgraced God by my actions, but because of His grace and mercy He has brought me back to His side again and again. And I know that when I go through difficult times, I would love and appreciate prayer for myself, that I would be forgiven and set free from my difficulties.
So lets get back on track - Mel is a man in need. Let us pray for him. Pray that, if he is saved, will get back on track. Pray that, if he isn't saved, then he will come to know the Lord.
Let's treat eachother as we would want to be treated. I would love prayer for when I go through difficult times myself.
It is sad to see threads turning into arguments. Let's keep it real and keep it friendly! We are all in this together. We are all fighting in the same battle, and for the same cause; to glorify Jesus' precious Name.
| 2006/8/1 11:00|
Ugh... there is some bad theology coming up on this forum lately.
I agree... this thread is about as far off track as it can be.
Sorry about that.
| 2006/8/1 11:22|
Let's keep it real and keep it friendly! We are all in this together. We are all fighting in the same battle, and for the same cause; to glorify Jesus' precious Name.
Amen, Richard. I've been watching this post and deliberately staying out. All that was originally asked was that we pray for this man. It's very sad to observe the degeneration.
I believe that our salvations are partly the result of someone praying for us while we were yet heathen. Whether Mel is truly saved or not, I can not say. Especially when men like Ravenhill and Singh have doubted that not more than 5% of professing Protestant Christians are truly born again of the Holy Spirit!
This is obviously important to brother Bartle. I'll come in agreement with him. I'll pray the Lord's will be done in Mel's life and leave it at that.
With Chrtistian love,
Paul Frederick West
| 2006/8/1 11:36||Profile|
| Re: Clearer|
And I know that when I go through difficult times, I would love and appreciate prayer for myself, that I would be forgiven and set free from my difficulties.
I do pray for many of the stars (loosely speaking) in the movie industry as well as thier behind the scenes personell. But to be honest I intercede for very few. I make a difference between the two >>prayer/intercession. I guess I like what the Word of God says when its speaks, "if the foundations be destroyed what can the righteous do?"
I think the message of the gospel has become so muddied in america that it's hard to know salvation in Christ from a secular stand point. So many voices! I guess if one could talk to someone like a Mel Gibson, it would be good to let them know that Jesus is a very present help in a time of need. I think I'd like to tell them that Jesus is alive and real and has overcome death hell and the grave, that there is victory in Christ over sin. I just wonder what gospel it is these folks are hearing, watching on tv and the radio, I wonder , do they have christian fellowship? bible study? do they attend prayer groups? do they have others around them to pray for them and incourage them? An open rebuke is better than secret love, maybe just maybe they have none to openly rebuke them? Are they teachable? Who knows, but God. I do know enough to know that just maybe his situation is an oppurtunity for the christian community to pour out thier effectual prayers on his (Gibson) behalf. And that's a fact!
| 2006/8/1 11:40||Profile|
Forgive me if I am posting out of place here. Alcoholism is a DISEASE, sinful yes, but still a disease of the mind and body. Why is anybody suprised of the ranting of a alcoholic? Because it's Mel Gibson? Alcohol is a DRUG!! As a recovering alcoholic, I have said & done things countless times while drunk, only to feel the fool & remorse later. You brain is impaired, you say things you do not necessarily truly believe. This just did not happen to Mel. Besides taking that first drink, a series of events led up to this behavior. The delusion that a alcohholic is of weak, or lacking in moral character is just silly. I have suffered & known pitiful incomprehensible demoralization well. As I am sure Mel Gibson, who is just a human does. He is sick and needs prayer for recovery, as well as spiritual direction. It would seem anybody judging if he is, or if he is not a Christian should stop and take a look at that one word, JUDGING. Mel does need to address health needs or die. And yes it seems he needs direction from God or die forever. But he is a sick man. But hey, that's just me.
And what did Martin Luther say? Is there credible evidence?
I dont know what Gibson said, but Martin Luthers anti-semitism is well documented in his own writings. His opinions infected Germany for generations, and culminated with the Nazis. (I'm not saying Luther was a Nazi... but the seeds of his hatred for Jews levened the whole lump)
As for Gibson's salvation, we can not judge the heart. However we can judge his own words, and his faith is NOT in the Jesus of the Bible. His faith is in the ordinances of the Catholic Church, and in Mary.
Also, if Mel knew his Bible he would cease calling his problem "the disease of alcoholism" and call it what God calls it: the sin of drunkeness. Not until people call sin sin can they really expect help from God. Mel doesnt need to "return to health" as he calls it... he needs to get right with God.
... as we all do from time to time.
| 2006/8/1 19:26||Profile|
| amen Rublue|
Big picture time:
The Passion of the Christ was a major evangelical event that I would venture to say swept thousands if not millions into the Kingdom of Heaven.
The devil hates this, and probably put a legion of demons to attack Mel from everyone weak point of his, he's just a man.
Where he lives, in the Santa Monica mountains is one of the most unholy, new-agey satan worshipping areas in the country, it's a very dark area, I know, because I used to live in that same area, and I know the dive that he was drinking at, Moonshadows on Pacific Coast Highway, and I know that Mel has been sober a great many years, and what drove him into Mooonshadows is what I'm getting at....
we can all fall, and when you make art that God uses to sweep sinners into the Kingdom, the devil's gonna go after you BIGTIME.
and we all can fall. Mel's done, you cannot be perceived as anti-semitic and work in the entertainment industry.
and its sad, becoz the Passion was a great evangelical event.
| 2006/8/1 20:14|
Within the bigger picture here, this is an interesting and important point to me.
I have said & done things countless times while drunk,...You brain is impaired, you say things you do not necessarily truly believe.
I'm sure you've heard of the phrase "three-beer honesty" or similar. Thankfully I've not had to battle with this issue personally so I am curious as to what others might have to say. I guess I've assumed that alchohol acts like a kind of 'truth serum', breaking down our social behavior, causing us to speak uninhibited about what's really on our minds. Is this an incorrect perception?
Much thanks brother for sharing from your own precious walk with the Lord regarding this painful issue.
| 2006/8/1 20:17||Profile|