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MSeaman
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Joined: 2005/4/19
Posts: 772
Michigan

 Economic downfall....

I'm not wanting to get in the middle of this, but I would like to say that I have heard several people say that God has shown them that the economy will be failing soon....I've also heard the year 2008 mentioned.


Guess we shall wait and see, but it wouldn't hurt to make sure we have all our ducks in a row either.

btw, the people I am talking about, aren't on TV or Radio...


_________________
Melissa

 2006/7/27 14:31Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

bro Robert
oh no there is no reluctance on my part, just a realization of the gravity of it all. i get to see if this is for real or if i'm off my rocker. i have no doubt that i heard from our Lord though.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2006/7/27 15:14Profile
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re:



WorldView you wrote;
"You know I think where some, if not many contemporary prophets go wrong, is that they are so used to having the Lord speak through them that they begin to assume that everything they have to say is of God."


Bro Keith i'm posting here not in defense of anything but just out of my own painful experience ... i agree with bro Ironman in that if i've chosen this road for myself then i'm in need of serious deliverance, and i've prayed God to do so on many occasions but so far that's not been my case ... But i digress ...

i can't speak for anyone else who believes they're called to the unmentionable calling, but as for me i've never been used to, and am still not used to God either speaking to/thru me, or even showing me things that my peers don't seem to see (even those things as bro Mike said it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see - but somehow we still don't see them) ... To all who are of the opinion that its not God at all whose been talking to me, or that it's my imagination, let it be known that i both acknowledge and respect your right of disbelief, but in order to share my experience i have to be able to tell it as i live it ok?

In my case bro. Keith the voice of God just comes out of the clear blue to me, whenever He wants to, regardless of whether i want to hear or act upon it or not ... When i was a babe in Christ, for a split second i thought that there might be some type of self-gratifying glory to be had from hearing the voice of God but that was quickly dispelled when i began recieving rebuff and rebuke from those i felt unctiond to proclaim to ... For me if anyone can ever become used to hearing from God then that man is extremely dangerous because the first thing hearing from our Holy God does is really, really reveal to the hearer just how unworthy, and unholy one is ... To be able to bypass this truth surely will make a man prone to self-righteousness, and i believe self-righteousness is the most dangerous thing a saint can secumb to ... Early on it became apparent to me that hearing the voice of God meant pain for me ... First off that His "word" to me to eventually share in regard our deep need for repentance, first had to engulf me in it's fiery hot flames ... We all may walk around here with some idea of just how filthy we are (even after salvation), but bro a saint ain't seen nowhere near the depths of our dirt until our Lord has called you to Himself for what i call an extra-carricular activity ... Just really, really think about being human, and fallible, but in a calling from God "having to be beyond reproach" ... The latter is usually refered to the calling of preacher/teacher, but it's been my experience thus far that if one claims the calling of the unmentionable calling, being beyond reproach just ain't good enough, one has to be almost perfect (in life, let alone what one says), with instant maturity and no room for on the job training ...

Another thing i've noticed in my own 20 odd year experience thus far is that God (at least in my case) hasn't said a whole lot to me (at least in reference with sharing with those outside of me) in that i could get used to His talking to me ... Holy Spirit speaks in reference to me, my walk, my Christian behavior (conviction) all the time, 24/7, and there was a time when i wasn't even used to this, altho now i'm glad i've surrendered to it ... But when it comes to hearing Him say deliver a word, not even to this day am i used to that (tho i'm not as resistant as i once was) because i know it's gonna stir up something and to be in the middle of a stir-up is not really my ideal ... i'm what people label an introvert, i like peace, harmony, quiet, and having to deal with as few folks as i possibly can, because it's usually when i have to interact with other folk that all the aforementioned things i like are soon fleeted ...

i would never have consciously chosen this experience i'm having in Christ, to the contrary i'd rather be more "a normal Christian" like so many of the saints who deem me nuts, misguided and/or self deluded ... i praise God that He had you post what you did because it's made me search myself some more, and i can honestly say that i have no trouble distinguishing my own thoughts from those i believe God imparts to me ... My own thoughts cause me very little grief, pain, cogitation of my spirit, or unction to go forth with a thus saith the Lord ... But when i hear Him in reference to doing so it has caused me in the past the most gut wrenching of reactions because by my natural nature i just don't want to do it ... i become afraid, because i don't like confrontation, especially so after realizing that usually when someone is called to deliver His Word (and most especially as a contemporary unmentionable) you're gonna cause confrontation ... Only the Spirit of God can drive an introvert out of one's own private (and often times most comfortable) little wilderness into appearing as His extrovert in the vast wasteland of modern day society ...

Blessings bro!

 2006/7/27 18:56Profile
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re: i see we're down to the real nitty-gritty! ...



Wow !!!

i see brother Ironman has finally been led of our Lord to cast out into the atmosphere what He's revealed to him regarding the timing of the coming financial upheaval ... i know some don't think what bro Ironman posted to be of our Lord, so be it, but i do and so i'm posting from my own heart ... Bro Ironman and myself have shared in many long and wonderful conversation about our Lord, and the mutual calling that we believe we share ... As i've said to brother Ironman before i'm truly grateful that my belief of calling hasn't spilled over to the one that begins with an "a", as i've caught enuf grief from claiming and acting upon the second one from the "a" ...

Anyhow i just want to (in the Spirit of Matt 18:19) publicly touch and agree with bro Ironman in brotherly support of what he's posted ... When brother Ironman first ran past me what he believes he heard our Lord say regarding 2007 my spirit jumped, then when he told me that our Lord had also said that He would reveal to him three days prior the fall day and that he must tell it - i was just amazed ... In all my 20 year + dealings with our Lord in hearing Him say that financial upheaval and REVIVAL was coming not once has He ever personally given me anything as specific as what bro Ironman shared with me, but when he told me in my heart i instantly believed ... Why you may ask? ... Well i've given this much thought and have come to a few conclusions ...Until brother Ironman i'd not had anyone in all my long years of dealing with my believed hearing from our Lord, to discuss such matters in fellowship with ... i truly believe that our Lord brought us together, he a young lion - me an old one ... Me seemingly coming to the end of an assignment, he just starting out ... Both of us overjoyed to find out that we were not alone in what we came to understand by others as our "strangeness" in faith ... It's like our Lord brought bro Ironman into my "faith-walk" just at the time when He knew i was at the point of keeling over and just giving up on a vision i'd carried for so long ...To be perfectly honest i was most amazed at bro Ironman's seemingly fast track in his love and obedience to God as compared to my Jonah type history of running, and thru me our Lord always commends him about it (He and bro James both) ... It's like in both of them our Lord sent me spritual sons to be more concerned about than being concerned about myself, and i subsequently realized a mutual building up and exhortive process taking place between us ... It soon also became very evident to me that our Lord was dealing with him in ways that He's never dealt with me ... i've never had such vivid visons such as those bro Ironman and James have shared in, and i've never seen or had encounters with angels in the capacity of which they speak ... Many don't believe in such accounts, but i'm of the opinion that just because i may not have this type of experience from God it doesn't mean others don't ... i mean in just the capacity in which God deals with me others shy away in disbelief and i know they're missing something of real potential spiritual benefit, so could i do the same with someone whom i believe our Lord has sent my way because his experience in many ways is far past mine ... My spiritual discernment told me emphatically no, just as sure as it pointed out the heart of brother Ironman for our Lord ... Then there's this final fact that in my relatively long lonely walk with Him in my assignment, when He knew that i was weary, He'd always send me "something" to keep me going on ... In bro Ironman's case i believe at this most recent important juncture in my walk, my waiting room experience, my camping right now just outside my promised land, he sent me "someone", bro Ironman, to convey to me that not only is my wait not much longer, but as near as within the coming year ... This 2007 prophecy of bro Ironman's has nothing to do with my salvation or love for Christ, but has all to do with something that i've been waiting on and praying about for such a long time now ... REVIVAL!!! ... The coming economic collapse as bro Mike allude to doesn't take a rocket scientist to see if one really looks at the economics of it all, but to prophecy a coming FINAL REVIVAL out of it, and for it to come to fruition can only come from our Lord, and so in tangent with bro Ironman's prophecy i believe it our Lord's way of telling me that within this time frame i too will see the onset of His final REVIVAL! ...

Soooooooooo ... i'm sure many have concluded bro Ironman to have just spiritually put his neck down on a chopping block to eventually have his head removed ... Well i believe our Lord is showing me that this potential chopping block also has another space beside his for my own neck, and so i come believing led of our Lord to hitch my longstanding beliefs to this yoke of bro Ironman's recent one, thereby binding as a twofold cord that if he's proven wrong then so am i ... If such proves the case then our Lord can kill two false prophets with one stone ... i say "false" clearly in that scripture makes no exception in this calling for "the well intended but mistaken anyhow" ... If at such a juncture then i too will do what bro Ironman said, "confess it then proceed to sit down and shut up." ...

But ohhhhhh boy, if (in my own heart - when) God and time proves us sound (and not for our sakes) man do i see MINISTRY, MINISTRY & MORE GLORIOUS MINISTRY, TO THE HONOR, PRAISE & GLORY OF THE MOST HIGH, TO THE PERFECTING OF HIS CHURCH VIA REVIVAL & THE BRINGING IN OF HIS SHEAVES ...Via this thread a die has been cast, and one way or the other bro. Ron's proposed meet date of 1/1/08 will present freedom (that is if God doesn't make it plain before then!) ...


Bro Ironman here's praying that Holy Spirit Himself is the first cord intertwined with we two, for with Him is a cord that CAN'T be broken ... Lord Your will be done! ... Amen :beard:

 2006/7/27 19:01Profile
WorldView
Member



Joined: 2006/7/10
Posts: 94
Davao, Philippines

 Re:

my statement was not judging anyone on this thread. Though if the Lord used it to convict anyone, that is totally up to Him.

I embrace the prophetic, while being warry of its pitfalls, being one who operates in it myself. The more I am in the ministry, the more I see the prophetic springing out of me.

Am I a prophet? I dont know. You can call me what you want, even a pile of poop if it makes you feel good. but I'm still going to allow God to flow through me in any way that He desires. My prayer lately has been for humility.

Just today I delivered a prophetic word before our leadership and our entire Bible college. It didn't seem all too signifigant to me. God just showed me something and prompted me when it was time to get up and deliver it. When it came out of my mouth, it came forth in power, and it had a greater impact that I thought it would. It actually kind of scared me when I saw the results.

After I delivered the message, my leader took the mic and began to cry out to God very passionately and in tears. Then I noticed other people in the room in tears and crying out. I was like, "Ooooh God." My leader was declaring it to be a Word from the Lord and telling everyone to write it down. And it is kind of scarey to have people claim words comming from my mouth to be the Word of God, though I have no doubt that they were.

After our meeting, I was kind of trying to avoid people hoping that no one would come up to me saying, "Great word brother." I almost wanted it to be as if everyone just forgot that I got up and said anything. I tend to feel that way after I preach too. I'll preach a message that I know turns out to be a homerun, and after the service I just kind of dont want people to come up to me saying that I did a good job, or congratulating me.

I know that when these things happen, they are not of me but of God, and I almost get a feeling of disgust if someone gives me credit or congratulates me for it. Though encouragement is good, it seems that after these events happen, I already get encouraged by the Holy Spirit and when I hear it from man, it just makes me a little sickened.

Yet I very much enjoy being used by God in these ways. I feel it is what I was created to do and God is using me.

These are just some personal experiences.

Keith


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Keith

 2006/7/28 0:32Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: put the prophetic in perspective

I believe that a discussion about the prophetic office would be incompete without setting it in the wider picture: ALL the offices/gifts/believers...
Otherwise you have a handicap - a Body with eyes and ears but no hands, feet, heart, brain....

For example, without the shepherding gifts of a pastor in operation (in the Biblical, not the modern sense) the voice of a prophet can become merely a loud and scary gong. And the psyche protects itself from anxiety by simply dicarding the information. And hearing "Repent, repent, repent... " means nothing without the rest of the Spirit's workings.

Also:

Nobody cares how much you know until they know how much you care.

From Chip Brogden:
[url=http://www.theschoolofchrist.org/articles/perfecting.html]The Perfecting of the Saints[/url] ( a good word for our budding evangelists too)
"And He gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ" (Ephesians 4:11-13).

If we wish to evaluate someone who claims to be an apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor or teacher, we can apply the same test: is this person centered on Jesus Christ? And when they do whatever it is that they do (preach, teach, prophesy, sing, plant churches, etc.), does it bring people into a deeper, more experiential knowing of Him?

Some may think that kind of test is too severe. Why, if we applied this criteria to every minister and ministry in the world (they say) then we would probably disqualify a majority of workers and works that are doing the Church and mankind a great service. Yes, we probably would. Yet in terms of value to the Kingdom of God, if the work is not Christ-centered and does nothing to bring people into a mature relationship with Him then it has no value to God and is worthless in His sight. If we are not preaching Christ then we are preaching something or someone else; and if we are not bringing people into the depths of Jesus with our life and work then we are either leaving them as they are or leaving them worse than when we found them. We become a distraction and a hindrance to the spiritual growth of others.


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Diane

 2006/7/29 9:55Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: In a word ...

Thanks Diane, saw this earlier and thought about putting it up ...

IRONMAN, must again say I applaud your laying it all on the line so to speak here. Your last sentiments have stayed with me, indeed I have and will continue to pray. There is no point to 'prove' anything as far as I am concerned, that is to say I harbor no anticipation one way or the other ... I really do not know and that there is a guarded caution of what can be misconstrued in these fallible minds of ours, well can speak of much towards just my own experience ... As it is often stated ... "[i]Experiences may vary[/i]..."

Still musing on all this and checking and back checking the 'whys' of all this matter, the motivation and 'what is all the bother about?' a word became logged in my thoughts;

Credibility

What is at stake in that word as it pertains to the Lord?

To stop and look out at the vast array of what is going on from the standpoint of how the world views Christianity what does it look like?

To generalize it completely would be an impossibility and dishonest, yet a great deal of us know the casual as well as the flippant, the legalistic with the flakiness, the marketable, manageable, entertainment driven model so prevelant... Just as well, the studied and sincere, the scholar and yet strangely, unbelieving. The persecuted and the servant, the silent ones just doing the Lords will without fanfare, acknowledgment or recognition.

But what is the predominant picture out there and is there enough of a great concern that the picture is marred? I seem to sense a misguided appropriation that keeps a guarded ideal of [i]"I don't care what the world thinks"[/i] but it is more often a hidden pride along the lines of...

Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

Than ...

Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

What to do with...?

Joh 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

Because we bring a conviction before we even open our mouths (not 'we' apart from the Holy Spirit) or because we do open them and it's not really hate but just disinterest, disregard and the appearance that what we have is disingenuous?

What keeps coming to the surface is that their is a nobility and frankness that ought to be evident exuding out of us. We, of all people ought to be the most sincere, honest, truthful 'realists' of any creature moving on this planet. We believe and proclaim that the God of the universe has condescended to live [i]in[/i] us... Is there any evidence to that fact? Or are we seen as spurious, misguided, imaginary muser's of abstract logic and futuristic fantasies?

There is that other word that wants to come in here sideway's that I alluded to elsewhere ...

Foolishness

It is not a total jest or false humility that I often categorize myself a 'fool'. It is true! To a point ... A fool who believes. A fool that recognizes just how much folly is still evident in thinking I have a grip on the ways of the Lord only to find that I have missed something, overlooked something, let pride in, rested on some laurels of 'knowledge' that kept me safeguarded ... Even now, in present circumstances, the best way to put it is that just when you think you are getting along quite well with the Lord, beginning to understand certain things all of a sudden you are thrust into a whole different set of circumstances that puts everything you 'thought' to the test. Right now this poor 'fool' is being grinded to a pulp in this other world of working providence. It is such a challenge, so completely different even on the natural plane, but on the spiritual (I am not advocating a split body trait here, they co-exist, just to isolate by examination only) I find myself wondering if I have not become almost two different people and not intentionally ... What I am trying to say is that I almost daily come home and the things I have said, the thoughts that have gone through the day are much repented of, this great divide and disconnect between the prayer closet and the working world. Much more could be said and better explained, it is just a very different and busy atmosphere. If I had to take a stab at the 'why' of it all it certainly seems the Lord is working on the character and that needs a lot of work.

My biggest fear in all of this remains the same. Bringing reproach upon the Name of the Lord. Whether by conduct, character or the classic "[i]opening one's mouth and removing all doubt[/i]".

The standard of the 'prophetic' cannot be any different than the standard for all of us as the Lords own. We are dealing in facts and realities, profound ones at that. The ways of the Lord are mysterious but not silliness. The Holy Spirit is not 'odd' or anything like the sad caricature that is often portrayed in so many circles, especially predominantly this modern realm of prophetic utterance, worse in the name-it-claim-it and other unchecked ... I digress. This doesn't necessarily apply to some of the statements made elsewhere here. The 'ease' for a lack of a better word is troubling, the defending and ever ongoing explanation of the 'office' and the 'prophet' that seems to shed less ... credibility rather than more. The concern seems put back on the man rather than on the Lord. That, is what is I guess so troubling.


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Mike Balog

 2006/7/29 11:43Profile
IRONMAN
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Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

sis diane
you bring up a good point and another aspect of all this that i hadn't recknoned with but evidently God Himself had in mind to bring it to the fore via this discussion. this is the unity of the Body and the need for that unity in Spirit because like you said, we need to understand the whole picture in terms of offices and gifts. Which means that those operating in the other gifts ought to come forth and do their part or else the whole thing fails.

for me the main thing is repentance but like you said without everyone else doing their bit, the full effect of what God is trying to achieve is not realized.

Quote:
Some may think that kind of test is too severe. Why, if we applied this criteria to every minister and ministry in the world (they say) then we would probably disqualify a majority of workers and works that are doing the Church and mankind a great service. Yes, we probably would. Yet in terms of value to the Kingdom of God, if the work is not Christ-centered and does nothing to bring people into a mature relationship with Him then it has no value to God and is worthless in His sight. If we are not preaching Christ then we are preaching something or someone else; and if we are not bringing people into the depths of Jesus with our life and work then we are either leaving them as they are or leaving them worse than when we found them. We become a distraction and a hindrance to the spiritual growth of others.



this is a terrifying truth we need to reckon with, much of what we pass off as being of benefit to the kingdom isn't pleasing in God's sight. remember 10 sheckels and a shirt? OUCH!!!

Lord Help us. AMEN


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Farai Bamu

 2006/7/29 13:41Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 not duckin' any more...

bro Rahman

Quote:
i see brother Ironman has finally been led of our Lord to cast out into the atmosphere what He's revealed to him regarding the timing of the coming financial upheaval ... i know some don't think what bro Ironman posted to be of our Lord, so be it, but i do and so i'm posting from my own heart ... Bro Ironman and myself have shared in many long and wonderful conversation about our Lord, and the mutual calling that we believe we share ... As i've said to brother Ironman before i'm truly grateful that my belief of calling hasn't spilled over to the one that begins with an "a", as i've caught enuf grief from claiming and acting upon the second one from the "a" ...



up to this point i'd been content in saying this in passing on many other threads and letting it go under the radar. this way i didn't catch any flak (saving my bacon) and i could feel justified that at least i said something. well upon seekingour Lord on what to day to bro Ron's question, He simply asked if i had confidence that it was Him who told me these things and if so to put my money where my mouth was so to speak. i firmly believe it's of our Lord so i copped to it now it's all on the line. i feel no trepidation or reluctance to do so.

as brother Rahman stated, we believe it to be no accident that our Lord would bring us together at this time on these boards. We have indeed both benefitted much, bro Rahman has been a spiritual father to me in that our Lord has taught me much through His dealings with him over the 25 yrs bro Rahman has known our Lord. i didn't seek our Lord for any of these things but He in fact preordained them for His own glory and purposes. the only reason i can think of is that our Lord delights in using the foolish things to confound the wise, the weak to undo the strong and the base things to confound those of seemingly more importance.

like brother Rahman i see what is coming up ahead as an opportunity for ministry. i look forward to these coming days because the called of God will step forth and rise up while the dross will fall away, unable to take the heat because the hardship which is coming can only be endured by God's grace. this will be a time of purification for His bride and most of all i look forward to the image of Christ being realized more and more in us His Church! i'm excited!

Quote:
Soooooooooo ... i'm sure many have concluded bro Ironman to have just spiritually put his neck down on a chopping block to eventually have his head removed ... Well i believe our Lord is showing me that this potential chopping block also has another space beside his for my own neck, and so i come believing led of our Lord to hitch my longstanding beliefs to this ox of bro Ironman's recent one, thereby binding as a twofold cord that if he's proven wrong then so am i ... If such proves the case then our Lord can kill two false prophets with one stone ... i say "false" clearly in that scripture makes no exception in this calling for "the well intended but mistaken anyhow" ... If at such a juncture then i too will do what bro Ironman said, "confess it then proceed to sit down and shut up." ...



bro Rahman off we go on this ride from which there is no turning back. the truth will soon be revealed to our Lord's glory. AMEN.

Quote:
Bro Ironman here's praying that Holy Spirit Himself is the first cord intertwined with we two, for with Him is a cord that CAN'T be broken ... Lord Your will be done! ... Amen



yea and AMEN bro.

Lord your will be done indeed!


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2006/7/31 22:56Profile
WorldView
Member



Joined: 2006/7/10
Posts: 94
Davao, Philippines

 Re: not duckin' any more...

may I ask what the prophecy was? I dont think that I got to read it.


_________________
Keith

 2006/8/1 4:34Profile





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