Katy, you are reading into the Prophet what is not there.
Your starting place to interpret the entire office of prophet is predisposed to the "fact" that non exists in our time.[I am assuming by your writings you take this position?]
Most everything you write seems to lean that way.
Am I right to assume this? no miracles no tongues No prophets?
| 2008/1/6 9:14||Profile|
I can only tell you what scripture says.
Concerning teachers, Paul warn, be NOT many teachers for they will receive the worse punishment.
Paul also said....Thou you have 10,000 teachers but not many FATHERS, be ye followers of Me, the way I am of Christ.
Unfortunately in our modern times we have brought into the Church a "secular testing" to see what your spiritual Gift is. Yuck!! Immediately given to NEW Baby Christians once they have joined the church.
And immediately these, who have qualified ( according to some secular testing) are handed books to teach. Many of which are actual school teachers.
But God's Gifts are completely opposite of any secular qualifications.
Also, I have seem silly things outside this realm, of those who think they are something special, laying hands and prophesying over someone and telling them what their Gift is. Can you find any scripture to back this up?
I met a lady years ago who thought this highly of herself, and would do at her Bible studies.
I saw her do this, lay hands on a lady, telling her, "God is calling you to be a great leader and a melting pot for &^%#^**^, County"...bla bla bla.
The woman she was so sure God had called her to lay hands on and do this was having an affair with the Pastor of one of the largest "&^^%$@@%^" Churches in the County. Had been having one for 15 years. The woman, not being honest about her private life, began to think more highly of herself, through this prophetic laying on of hands, was totally exposed, along with the pastor.
The woman, who had built for herself a great following with her so called special talents women were running to for this laying on of hands etc, also ended up in the dust...does not teach to this day.
She ruined so many lives by her playing God in theirs.
And I do believe this goes on all the time. People are in places GOD never intended them to be.
God won't be mocked, and there is too much of this nonsense going on.
God can talk to you personally, and if He can't and you need a mediator, then something is wrong.
Love in Christ
| 2008/1/6 9:27|
Katy, thanks, My point is ...It is not within anyone's ability to predict events.
But God can. If a believer lays hand on a sick person they either will or will not be healed.
Some in the past have tried to help this along or use microphones etc.
because it is not within their power to perform these things.
But what is a person to do that is called into these things?
Do they go by eyesight or the word of God?
I cannot predict but God can.
I must be determined to receive all that God can offer me.
How can I do this?
I Must believe it is true!
This is my starting place!
I must have it. I must lay hold of it.
I must try.
| 2008/1/6 13:28||Profile|
Katy, thanks, My point is ...It is not within any one's ability to predict events.
But God can
David, I would say that God all ready has, in His written word.
Now, I recently saw on here an article at the top of a thread, about someone who just wrote a book claiming that in 2008 America this and America that. This person states we are in the last 1/2 of the 3 1/2 years of the great tribulation of which immediately will be the return of the Lord.
Once again...someone is predicting the date of the return of Christ. Edited : 2008+3 1/2 years puts the return of Christ according to this author 2011 around June 30th or so.Hummmmmmm!
Now stating America is the last of the witnesses to the world etc, etc.
Just those statements alone are wrong,and will probably be the subject of a New Thread in 2009 along side Pat Robertson.
Where in scripture old or New, is America even mentioned as being the LAST of the witnesses to the world before teh return of Christ? No where. So this person is speculating out of an understanding not even found on scriptural facts.
This is where all must look before believing anyone who claims to be a predictor of future events.
What is his foundational truths? and does he have at least 2 or three witnesses of that truth to back up such claims.
With so much garbage coming out of America, through CBN, Benny Hinn , the prosperity teachers etc, WE ARE NOT THE VOICE OF GOD.
We need Missionaries sent to us....hurry please!
And where does scripture say we ever were? We may have some high opinion of ourselves we are, but has God stated so, that someone can take end times doctrine and wrap it around what America is doing?
God's witnesses are NOT Nations, but people, making up the Body of Christ...we are a peculiar people, a Heavenly organism, not an earthly one. We live all over the world, not in one place.
We fail to understand that a tare can never become wheat, but somehow through horrible sufferings this transformation will take place.
Again, no where is this taught in scripture.
James calls on the ELDERS of the Church to lay on hands the sick. Why didn't he call for the healers?????? Just curious?????
Love in Christ
| 2008/1/6 13:53|
All I was saying was that your use of the words "prophecy" and "prophesy" to make a distinction between the original Greek words actually confuses the point I think you were trying to make.
For example, you said:
Quote:How can different [i]English[/i] words have different definitions in [i]Greek and Hebrew[/i]?
If studying your words, prophet, prophetic, prophet, prophecies, prophecy, prophesied, prophesiety, etc,all have different definitions in the Greek and Hebrew.
The differences [i]are[/i] there in the Greek, of course, but it's impossible to show them by using English in the way you seem to be trying to do! For example, to say that someone "prophecied" is simply a spelling mistake in English, not a different meaning!
By the way, there's no such word as "prophesiety"! ;-)
Quote:I remembered that there were slightly different words translated as prophesying, and that one of them had more the meaning of "to preach", but should have looked it up properly to make sure.
The Greek word prophet..."prophetes" (inspired speaker) is not the same as propheteia..(one who makes predictions)...also the English word is prophet.
Was [i]that[/i] what you were trying to say originally?
If so, I finally understand what you were getting at!
Quote:I agree, wish I could do more of it - will certainly check on the above when able.
The second is not the one listed in Ephesians 4., and rarely used in the NT at all.
Also study the scripture that uses the words Prophesy...etc and the same goes here.
It's really good to study all scripture with it's original meaning to rightly divide scripture.
Quote:Yes. For example, as you no doubt know, the word "love" translates at least three different Greek words.
English unfortunately uses one word that the Greek or Hebrew may have 10 different words and meanings for.
| 2008/1/6 14:29|
Quote:Great point, Katy!
Paul said, in 1 Corinthians 14:37..if any of you think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. ;-)
Well, this chapter is about spiritual Gifts, and this Gift, the Gift of a prophet, must have the ability and maturity to even know if what Paul is writing are the commandments of the Lord. When he uses Prophet, or spiritual interchangeably you know he isn't referring to carnal baby.
Please read 1 Corinthians 2 and 3 to qualify his meaning. Paul explains spiritual...full grown...etc.
Paul puts the Spiritually Mature listed in Ephesians first right after Apostles...
...PS Added. Paul also urged those to SEEK to prophesy.....in other words...God said He was a rewarder of those who diligently SEEK Him.
Seek the GIVER and the gifts will be added...
Love in Him
| 2008/1/6 14:31|
If I were predisposed to make anemic the gifts and figure out how they dont apply to today then i would be right in there with you.
but I know i will have to give an account to the king.
when he comes and asks for fruit I dont want to be like that fig tree that wasn't bearing fruit.
Besides I know I'm not going to "seek the giver" and have gifts given to me while at the same time taking a position to explain away any obligation as a believer to operate in everything made available.
It [in my opinion] slaps God in the face to say "i just really am not interested in your gifts."
But if you want to just give them to me abstractly i suppose thats ok.
I will venture to say that is exactly why we have what we have today.
The mantle is not automatic. One must pick it up. It does require effort.
2tim. 1;6.......That thou stir up the gift of God that is within thee
2tim 2;5 .......Except he strive lawfully
1tim 4;14 .....the gift which was given the by prophesy through the laying on of hands
I know, I know....... you think I'm mad
[I thought I was hiding it]
| 2008/1/6 15:57||Profile|
ps. whenever you can make it south, I'll grind the beans right in front of you before I make your coffee.
Now thats an offer I trust I will be able to take advantage of this next week :-)
| 2008/1/6 23:17||Profile|
Yes. For example, as you no doubt know, the word "love" translates at least three different Greek words.
Good Morning Jeannette,
Yes, you said it better than my clumsy way.
So it is good to check. This is true for so many words.
One example is the word "wait". Wait on the Lord.
I heard a pastor use this from a verse..to wait upon the Lord, and he said it meant like a butler or waiter. However, that was not the meaning ....but it really meant to trust in the Lord and wait for Him.
Sometimes we think these are harmless mistakes, but the Greatest of all Faith and Trust is to wait for Him, not run ahead and do something on our own.
Thanks Jeannette for clarifying.
Love in Christ
| 2008/1/7 8:23|
Besides I know I'm not going to "seek the giver" and have gifts given to me while at the same time taking a position to explain away any obligation as a believer to operate in everything made available
David, do you believe your Gift works independently from the Giver?
You sound like you worship your Gift more then the giver of the Gift. Which sounds like your gift is independent from Christ In You.
The Holy Spirit can't work independently from the Word, but magnifies the Word of God. The Holy Spirit always points to Jesus Christ, not to Himself.
That's like worshiping the silverware more then the prime rib.;-)
Love in Christ
| 2008/1/7 8:30|