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 Re:

murrcolr said.

Quote:
My Friend The Church is Dead.........




murrcolr, are you saying God is dead? To say the Church is dead is to say God is dead!

We His body ARE the Church, not some earthly denominations of religion, but a heavenly union with Christ.

I am not dead, and Christ in me is not dead.

The Church consists of believers all over this world who make up the Church.

The gates of Hell shall not prevail against the Church. Never!!!!!

Apostate is not the church, but the falling away from biblical truth forming Mystery Babylon, a mock church...earthly dominion....this is what YOU are seeing, and accusing Born Again Christians of being part of this, calling them dead, and Christ in them dead.

Jesus LIVES forever more, and we are ALIVE in Him FOREVER More!!

Love in Christ
Katy-Did


 2008/1/3 14:19









 Re:

Quote:

Katy-did wrote:
[b]... are you saying God is dead? To say the Church is dead is to say God is dead!

We His body ARE the Church, not some earthly denominations of religion, but a heavenly union with Christ.

I am not dead, and Christ in me is not dead.

The Church consists of believers all over this world who make up the Church.

The gates of Hell shall not prevail against the Church. Never!!!!!

Apostate is not the church, but the falling away from biblical truth forming Mystery Babylon, a mock church...earthly dominion....this is what YOU are seeing, and accusing Born Again Christians of being part of this, calling them dead, and Christ in them dead.

Jesus LIVES forever more, and we are ALIVE in Him FOREVER More!![/b]

Love in Christ
Katy-Did






Hear-hear! :-D


Glory To GOD!

 2008/1/3 15:23
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK

 Re:

No I am saying this.

I heard God say...The Church is Dead.........

Escaping the Theology of Babylon by Carter Colon

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=11764

Rev 3v1 And to the angel of the church in Sardis write: These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars: I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and thou art dead.
2 Be thou watchful, and establish the things that remain, which were ready to die: for I have found no works of thine perfected before my God.
3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and didst hear; and keep it , and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
4 But thou hast a few names in Sardis that did not defile their garments: and they shall walk with me in white; for they are worthy.
5 He that overcometh shall thus be arrayed in white garments; and I will in no wise blot his name out of the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches.

I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and thou art dead.
.......Well that speaks for itself alive but dead........The wages of sin is death......

For I have found no works of thine perfected before my God.
.......Having a form of godliness but deny the power..............

I will come as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
........The end times...........

But thou hast a few names in Sardis that did not defile their garments: and they shall walk with me in white; for they are worthy.
........A remnant..............

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches.

Please also listen to the featured sermon on this site.

The Adversary In the Church BY Milton Green
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=12482


_________________
Colin Murray

 2008/1/3 15:28Profile
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK

 Re:

I have to clarify something.

This is excatly what I heard.

The church is dead know get up !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


_________________
Colin Murray

 2008/1/3 16:00Profile









 Re:

Quote:

murrcolr wrote:
No I am saying this.

I heard God say...The Church is Dead.........

Escaping the Theology of Babylon by Carter Colon

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=11764

Rev 3v1 And to the angel of the church in Sardis write: These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars: I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and thou art dead.
2 Be thou watchful, and establish the things that remain, which were ready to die: for I have found no works of thine perfected before my God.
3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and didst hear; and keep it , and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
4 But thou hast a few names in Sardis that did not defile their garments: and they shall walk with me in white; for they are worthy.
5 He that overcometh shall thus be arrayed in white garments; and I will in no wise blot his name out of the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches.

I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and thou art dead.
.......Well that speaks for itself alive but dead........The wages of sin is death......

For I have found no works of thine perfected before my God.
.......Having a form of godliness but deny the power..............

I will come as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
........The end times...........

But thou hast a few names in Sardis that did not defile their garments: and they shall walk with me in white; for they are worthy.
........[b]A remnant[/b]..............

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches.




Hi Murrcolr - I can agree that what is commonly called or known as, "the church" is dead - but as you've mentioned "the remnant" - or as the LORD calls them, "The Elect" - are not dead and will not be dead and I see that as Katy posted.

The warnings to the Churches was a very good idea to post - yes! But as you read on from there - you see from the warnings on - you have The Overcomers - Amen - The Elect - and Jesus said "the most shall fall away" - so your term "the remnant" [i]is[/i] Scripturally, all that will be left, at the end, of what is now called "the church" - by people's own "choices".

When saying "the Elect", I don't mean those "predestined" - I mean, "those whom GOD foreknew from before creation, that would love Him with their whole heart, soul, mind and strength and be faithful unto the end, or their end."

I meet more of these everyday. They have been on fire for Truth for a long time and still burn all the more brightly as these days darken.

They have walked in what others would call "revival" for most of their "born-again lives".

Even those who's sermons are posted on this website.

PRAISE HIS NAME. We need to be encouraged by those "Faithful".

He who has an ear, to hear what the Spirit has to say to the churches, WILL HEAR and DO hear.

"The Lord knows them that are His."

If it weren't for that verse, our depression over the state of things would have taken us down many moons ago.

HE WILL HAVE A PEOPLE - and HE knew from before the foundation of the world - who would Love Him and be faithful unto the end.

He's not sweating - but some should be.

I don't think you and Katy disagree nor do I - it's just that we have to see that those who Love Him will seek Him with all of their hearts and Love His Voice/His Word/His Truth and will "follow", even if they are persecuted for doing so. That's Love.
He knows His Own and they Know Him.
His Sheep will follow wheresoever He leads.

Focusing on goats and tares is very depressing.
He said, "if" it were possible, even the Elect would be deceived --- so that warning gives all the chance - to "watch" so they won't be.

Those who fervently Love Him will watch - those who don't won't. The 5 foolish and the 5 wise virgins. He already knows who His Bride/His Elect are - Glory to GOD!


I agree to keep posting these warnings as you have - but when you need encouragement - just remember - GOD 'WILL' HAVE A PEOPLE.



 2008/1/3 16:32
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Thanks for the encouragment.

Revelation of John 15

2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire; and them that come off victorious from the beast, and from his image, and from the number of his name, standing by the sea of glass, having harps of God.

God will have A People of Victory


_________________
Colin Murray

 2008/1/3 16:42Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Prophesy unto us, thou Christ

[u][i][b]Prophesy![/b][/i][/u]

[i]And when they had blindfolded him, they struck him on the face, and asked him, saying, [b]Prophesy[/b], who is it that smote thee?[/i] Luk 22:64


[i]Then did they spit in his face, and buffeted him; and others smote him with the palms of their hands, Saying, [b]Prophesy[/b] unto us, thou Christ, Who is he that smote thee?[/i] Mat 26:67,68


[i]I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting.[/i] Isa 50:6


[b]Isa 50:6 -

And my cheeks to them that plunked off the hair[/b] - The greatest indignity that could possibly be offered. See the note on Isa_7:20 (note).

[b]I hid not my face from shame and spitting[/b] - Another instance of the utmost contempt and detestation. It was ordered by the law of Moses as a severe punishment, carrying with it a lasting disgrace; Deu_25:9. Among the Medes it was highly offensive to spit in any one’s presence, Herod. 1:99; and so likewise among the Persians, Xenophon, Cyrop. Lib. i., p. 18.

“They abhor me; they flee far from me;
They forbear not to spit in my face.”
[i]Job_30:10.[/i]

“And Jehovah said unto Moses, If her father had but spit in her face, should she not be ashamed seven days?” Num_22:14. On which place Sir John Chardin remarks, that “spitting before any one, or spitting upon the ground in speaking of any one’s actions, is through the east an expression of extreme detestation.” - Harmer’s Observ. 2:509. See also, of the same notions of the Arabs in this respect, Niebuhr, Description de l’Arabie, p. 26. It so evidently appears that in those countries spitting has ever been an expression of the utmost detestation, that the learned doubt whether in the passages of Scripture above quoted any thing more is meant than spitting, - not in the face, which perhaps the words do not necessarily imply, - but only in the presence of the person affronted. But in this place it certainly means spitting in the face; so it is understood in St. Luke, where our Lord plainly refers to this prophecy: “All things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished; for he shall be delivered to the Gentiles, and shall be mocked and spitefully entreated, and spitted on, εμπτυσθησεται, “Luk_18:31, Luk_18:32, which was in fact fulfilled; και ηρξεαντο τινες εμπτυειν αυτῳ, “and some began to spit on him,” Mar_14:65, Mar_15:19. If spitting in a person’s presence was such an indignity, how much more spitting in his face?

Adam Clarke

[b]Mat 26:68 - Saying, prophesy unto us, thou Christ,....[/b] Not that they owned him to be the Messiah; but because he asserted himself to be the Messiah, and his followers believed in him as such, they call him so; and in an ironical and sarcastic way, call upon him to divine, and tell them who the persons were, that used him in this manner; suggesting, that if he was the Christ, or Messiah, he would know all things, and what were done to him:

[b]who is he that smote thee?[/b] for they had covered his face, or blindfolded him, as the other Evangelists say, Mar_14:65, and then bid him tell them who smote him last. Christ did not think fit to give them an answer to this question, but he will let them know hereafter, who the particular person, or persons were, that smote him; and when it will appear to all the churches, and to all the world, that he is the Lord God omniscient. Some learned men have observed (a), that there was a play formerly used, called by the ancients, κολλαβισμος, at which, one person having his face covered, the rest smote him; or one put his hands over his eyes, and another smote, and asked him who it was that smote? and such an exercise is yet in being among us, which is commonly called Blindman's Buff; and such pastime as this the Jews had with Christ; in this ludicrous way did they use him, and made him their sport and diversion, as the Philistines did Samson; but it will cost them dear another day,

(a) Braunii Select. Sacr. l. 5. Exerc. 2. sect. 38. p. 622, 623. & Capelt. in loc. e Polluce, l. 9. c. 7.

John Gill

VII. The abuses and indignities done to him after sentence passed (Mat_26:67, Mat_26:68); [i]Then[/i], when he was found guilty, they [i]spat in his face[/i]. Because they had not power to put him to death, and could not be sure that they should prevail with the governor to be their executioner, they would do him all the mischief they could, now that they had him in their hands. Condemned prisoners are taken under the special protection of the law, which they are to make satisfaction to, and by all civilized nations have been treated with tenderness; sufficient is this punishment. But when they had passed sentence upon our Lord Jesus, he was treated as if hell had broken loose upon him, as if he were not [i]only worthy of death[/i], but as if that were too good for him, and he were unworthy of the compassion shown to the worst malefactors. Thus [i]he was made a curse for us.[/i] But who were they that were thus barbarous? It should seem, the very same that had passed sentence upon him. [i]They said, He is guilty of death, and then did they spit in his face.[/i] The priests began, and then no wonder if the servants, who would do any thing to make sport to themselves, and curry favour with their wicked masters, carried on the humour. See how they abused him.

1. [i]They spat in his face.[/i] Thus the scripture was fulfilled (Isa_50:6), [i]He hid not his face from shame and spitting.[/i] Job complained of this indignity done to him, and herein was a type of Christ (Job_31:10); [i]They spare not to spit in my face.[/i] It is an expression of the greatest contempt and indignation possible; looking upon him as more despicable than the very ground they spit upon. When Miriam was under the leprosy, it was looked upon as a disgrace to her, like that of [i]her father spitting in her face,[/i] Num_12:14. He that refused to raise up seed to his brother, was to undergo this dishonour, Deu_25:9. Yet Christ, when he was repairing the decays of the great family of mankind, submitted to it. That face which was [i]fairer than the children of men[/i], which was [i]white and ruddy[/i], and which angels reverence, was thus filthily abused by the basest and vilest of the children of men. Thus was confusion poured upon his face, that ours might not be filled with everlasting shame and contempt. They who now profane his blessed name, abuse his word, and hate his image in his sanctified ones; what do they better than spit in his face? They would do that, if it were in their reach.

2. [i]They buffeted him, and smote him with the palms of their hands.[/i] This added pain to the shame, for both came in with sin. Now the scripture was fulfilled (Isa_50:6), [i]I gave my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair; and (Lam_3:30), He giveth his cheek to him that smiteth him; he is filled with reproach, and yet keepeth silence[/i] (Lam_3:28); and (Mic_5:1), [i]They shall smite the Judge of Israel with a rod upon the cheek[/i]; here the margin reads it, [i]They smote him with rods[/i]; for so [i]errapisan[/i] signifies, and this he submitted to.

3. They challenged him to tell who struck him, having first blindfolded him; [i]Prophesy unto us, thou Christ, who is he that smote thee?[/i] (1.) They made sport of him, as the Philistines did with Samson; it is grievous to those that are in misery, for people to make merry [i]about[/i] them, but much more to make merry [i]with[/i] them and their misery. Here was an instance of the greatest depravity and degeneracy of the human nature that could be, to show that there was need of a religion that should recover men to humanity. (2.) They made sport with his prophetical office. They had heard him called a [i]prophet[/i], and that he was famed for wonderful discoveries; this they upbraided him with, and pretended to make a trial of; as if the divine omniscience must stoop to a piece of children's play. [i]They[/i] put a like affront upon Christ, who profanely jest with the scripture, and make themselves merry with holy things; like Belshazzar's revels in the temple bowls.

Matthew Henry


_________________
Mike Balog

 2008/1/4 8:34Profile









 Re:

Quote:

psalm1 wrote:
It seems to me from reading the posts that the main belief is the prophets just kind of shoot up out of nowhere.
Different people have different callings.
A pastor by most everyone definition usually is a gifted speaker.
A musician usually has a music talent.
A teacher usually a teaching gifting or mantle and so on.
There are people with prophetic callings.
The first time a teacher teaches do they look like a seasoned veteran?....NO!
The first sermon of a pastor does he sound like a seasoned veteran?...NO
Does the evangelist have the confidence of finny in his early stages?...NO

But the poor prophet is somehow not afforded this same early growth patience.

Go figure!!

David

Hi David

Got a bit behind on this thread so just to jump in here:

I don't think anyone wants to deny that these ministry gifts, apostle, prophet etc exist and are vital to the Church.

Surely the point is that none of us should make any presumptuous claims to have this or that ministry. If we truly operate in the Spirit in a particular gift or gifts it will soon be obvious to all. Others will say we are this, we don't need to claim anything. Amos for example denied that he had the office of a prophet - he was simply a herdsman and farmer of sycamine fruit (a kind of wild fig). Yet it was obvious to all that he was in fact a prophet.

Samuel never called himself a prophet, it was others who did that. He began as an innocent child, with a childlike response to the Lord, to hear and convey His word.

I said earlier in this thread that I've stopped looking to know what my gift or calling is. It doesn't seem to matter any more, only seeking to walk with the Lord and learning to follow Him. But that doesn't mean there are no gifts, just that there's no more desire or need to focus on them instead of Him.

And sometimes our ambitions or ideas about what our giftings are may be mistaken.

Someone on this forum for example said that I was clearly a pastor.

I used to think I was mainly a teacher!

The pastor of the church I went to before moving is obviously a true pastor (not a brilliant speaker, though his talks are a blessing because of the love and caring that oozes from him as he speaks). But he originally wanted to be, and thought he had, the gift of an evangelist. We said to him, "Yes, of course, hold campaigns, preach the Gospel, nothing wrong with that. But [i]you are a pastor[/i] - it's obvious!"

Eventually he came to realise it himself, and stopped hankering after being something he wasn't. People did get saved under his ministry, but more because of his caring, warm nature, which made the church a caring warm church where folk liked to be.

By the way, a pastor isn't always a gifted speaker, (though a teacher or evangelist obviously needs that ability). A pastor has nurturing, caring gifts.

I have known pastors who were hopeless preachers, but their care of the flock was beautiful. And i've known gifted speakers who were in no way pastors, even if they had that official title. A Bible example would be John the Baptist - everyone went to hear him speak but I can't imagine him as a pastor - can you?

Jacob Prasch (some of his talks are on SI I believe, or go to moriel.org)is a great speaker but said that its just as well he's not a pastor because he'd have "lamb chops" every Sunday - it just isn't his gift. But if you need someone to speak the Truth without fear or favour (or much tact!) he's your man!

Blessings

Jeannette

 2008/1/4 14:34









 Re:

Quote:

murrcolr wrote:
Katy-did said:

Our gifts do not work through our flesh, as the Holy Spirit does not anoint our flesh by any means.

If you read what I said earlier you will see someone who operates in the prophetic can see something in there gifting and then can then jump right into the flesh (get angry) to try and deal with it and completly make a mess of it.

Please read about Moses in Numbers 20

-------------------------------------------------
Katy-did said:

I once heard a very wise pastor say, the greatest enemy in the church is Carnal Baby Christians or the world.

He is very foolish. A pastor can do far more damage in the church than a Carnal Baby Christain. Look at what is going on in the church right know is that Carnal Baby Christians and the world.

A Pastor feels threatened by someone in his church he thinks that person is better than them and out of that insecurity he attacks that person from his pulpit. After years and years of putting up with this they have left the church hate God and are in Lesbian marriage.

The same Pastor goes away on mission the leadership team is left in charge of getting the quartly magazine ready. His instruction are get it done. He comes back sees the magazine he calls a church meeting where three churchs come together. He hands out the magazines to everyone there and asks who was involved in doing this as they stand once they are there feet. HE GOES MAD I MEAN MAD. Made evryone look stupid and told them they had to pay for the magazine cause he never approved it. After years and years of abuse these leaders leave the church and have never set foot in another church.

My wife says she met one woman that used to go to that church and after about 5 years would like to go back but is scared she will get shouted at.

Children in the church couldn't move with someone getting on there case. Come on take hold of Jesus. Most are off chasing after the world some are drug dealers some drug addicts. A girl who is know fully grown still cuts herself she still hates God.

Sad, very sad. The Pastor still runs of to the nations to preach. He has went from having three churchs to none one burnt down, one closed down due the lack of finances someone took over the leadership in the other. He has never repented for utterly destroying peolpes lives.

Oh I forgot to mention BMW and Jaguar cars nice big house with ministry maintenance team down doing work on the house most days.

Hey he was Gods prophet he had the word of God of course he was right...

Coming to a church near you soon.......
----------------------------------------------

Sounds like that particular "pastor" was actually a "carnal baby Christian", even if he'd been "saved" for many years!

Isaiah 3:
[color=990000]4 And I will give children to be their princes, and babes shall rule over them.
5 And the people shall be oppressed, every one by another, and every one by his neighbour: the child shall behave himself proudly against the ancient, and the base against the honourable.

12 As for my people, children are their oppressors...[/color]

in Him

Jeannette

 2008/1/4 14:42









 Re:

Quote:

psalm1 wrote:
I think i only brought out the obvious. but your comments prove my logic.
Otherwise you wouldn't resist what I brought to light.
All prophets teachers evangelists, pastors etc. have their beginnings somewhere.
This automatically constitutes growth.


as far as scripture ? pick one.
Elijah and Elisha
1 Cor 14; 24 ,31 ,39
Also Eph 4;11 He gave some apostles,prophets pastors...........For the perfecting of the saint for the work of the ministry.
You dont think Andrew strom had his beginnings somewhere?
A prophet is not a prophet because he bats 100%
A prophet is a prophet because of the prophetic mantle or anointing.
Why would Paul say earnestly pursue the gifts but mostly the gift of prophecy?
Because now the prophet is inside us...JESUS
WE MAY ALL PROPHESY!!
David

Pondering on this, I think the difference between the office of a prophet and the other ministry gifts is that he speaks as God's messenger. His inspiration is supposed to be directly from the Holy Spirit.

As with the other ministries, he is only human and may often speak and act in the flesh when he's not prophesying. He also needs to grow in maturity and in knowing how to use, rather than misuse, his office and gifting. But the gift of prophecy [i]itself[/i] is a spiritual gift and has nothing to do with the maturity or otherwise of the one who operates in it. -Any more than it has with the maturity of someone who speaks in tongues or does miracles, healings etc.

Prophecy is a spiritual gift, and should come directly from God, bypassing the carnal and merely human.

Even Caiaphas prophesied, [b]and got it right[/b], though he was an enemy of God, and actually plotting to kill Jesus at the very time he prophesied (John 11:49following)!

That is the difference, I believe. The prophet is fallible, but the prophecy itself should be a direct word from God, and therefore infallible.

But at the same time, the example of Caiaphas gives hope, and probably ground for encouraging our brethren who gave what turned out to be a false prophesy. If an evil man can prophesy truth, surely a good man who mistakenly prophesies error can be forgiven if he repents?

Does that make sense?

Jeannette

 2008/1/4 14:58





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