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 Re:

Quote:

murrcolr wrote:
Prophetic Credentials

A challenge to would be Prophets

Hosea had to marry a whore; Jeremiah couldn't marry at all!

God chooses His prophets, God prepares His prophets, God sends His prophets.

By the time He gets around to the sending part, those prophets usually find any reluctance overcome by divine compulsion. The message has become their own and they would not silence it if they could.

The life of a prophet reflects the particular message God has given him. One of the reasons for this is that his life is brought into subjection to and molded by that message. One of the practical applications of this is that no prophet of God will allow anything in his life, whether good or evil, that will detract from his effective communication of his message.

So you think or know God has given you a message to your peers or to one of the other generations about you?

A message about You?

Then let the message and the Spirit that gave it burn in you with enough heat to consume all things in your life that would either combat or frustrate the delivery of that message.

A Prophet does not just give out words of prophecy he is the messsage.

Hope this helps you understand excatly what are the credentials of a Prophet.

Forgot to say that I appreciate that profound post. The prophet IS the message. YES!!!

Especially
Quote:
Then let the message and the Spirit that gave it burn in you with enough heat to consume all things in your life that would either combat or frustrate the delivery of that message.

And that is a faithful challenge for all of us who seek to serve the Lord, prophetically or otherwise.

On reading the original prophecy by Ironman, I was dismayed, feeling that, though there were elements of truth, there was also mixture in it. It didn't seem to have quite the pure, sharp thrust of the Sword of the Spirit.

The Lord said to me, years ago, "You will never be truly happy until you have lost all you [i]think[/i] you now have". It's only in recent years that I've begun to appreciate something of what He meant. For He began to strip me of every area in which I thought I could serve Him, and gave no opportunity to use the gifts He had given...

Often He [i]has[/i] to strip us before we can be reclothed in His glory, in His garments, rather than our own (Zechariah 3)

So the word to our brothers is, repent, deeply repent, despise not the chastening of the Lord.

But do not despair...

in Him

Jeannette

 2008/1/1 20:16
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

are there any true prophets where a person could go and get trained? For example elijah training Elisha.


David

 2008/1/1 23:29Profile









 Re:

Quote:

psalm1 wrote:
are there any true prophets where a person could go and get trained? For example elijah training Elisha.

David

Interesting question! There are supposed prophetic schools, though don't know if there are any non-dodgy ones. But that was Old Covenant, we don't need them now, except to know the Bible well.

Jeremiah 31:34
[color=990000] And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.[/color]

and Moses said (Numbers 11:29):
[color=990000]would God that all the LORD’S people were prophets, and that the LORD would put his spirit upon them![/color]

And Paul said, (1Co 14:31)([color=990000] For ye may [i]all[/i] prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.[/color] (my emphasis)

Blessings

Jeannette

 2008/1/2 6:15
dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re:

Samuel started a school for (of) the prophets. Forth telling is a very limited aspect of the ministry of a prophet. And to say that they must be the message is no different than that of all christians, we ARE epistles read by all men everywhere, so that call of the prophet and the life of the prophet is in many respects the call of all true christians. Learning to discern the voice of God on the other hand is a whole other subject. I supose that for the present this scripture is good enough to stand and speak much to this country presently.
2Co 12:1 It is necessary to boast; it is not helpful, but I will move on to visions and revelations of the Lord.
2Co 12:2 I know a man in Christ who was caught up into the third heaven 14 years ago. Whether he was in the body or out of the body, I don't know; God knows.
2Co 12:3 I know that this man--whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows--
2Co 12:4 was caught up into paradise. He heard inexpressible words, which a man is not allowed to speak.
2Co 12:5 I will boast about this person, but not about myself, except of my weaknesses.
2Co 12:6 For if I want to boast, I will not be a fool, because I will be telling the truth. But I will spare you, so that no one can credit me with something beyond what he sees in me or hears from me,
2Co 12:7 especially because of the extraordinary revelations. Therefore, so that I would not exalt myself, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to torment me so I would not exalt myself.
2Co 12:8 Concerning this, I pleaded with the Lord three times to take it away from me.
2Co 12:9 But He said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness." Therefore, I will most gladly boast all the more about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may reside in me.


_________________
D.Miller

 2008/1/2 6:20Profile
broclint
Member



Joined: 2006/8/1
Posts: 370
West Monroe, LA

 Re: Forth telling is a very limited aspect of the ministry of a prophet.

I believe (I hope) you meant FORE telling is a small percentange of the ministry of a prophet... :-)

Clint


_________________
Clint Thornton

 2008/1/2 6:59Profile
broclint
Member



Joined: 2006/8/1
Posts: 370
West Monroe, LA

 Re: quote by Crsschk

CRSSCHK quote:
“The prophet that hath a dream, let him tell a dream; and he that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully. Jer 23:28

Grand statements here. Are we still deriving from Old Testament times and 'prophets'? An open question and debate, still the definitions are muddy. But is the principle still applicable? Forget the word 'prophet' for a moment, the man\woman who has a dream, let them tell a dream and even if that dream has to do with the Lord does His Name thereby have to be brought into it as ipso facto as either factual evidence that this is His communication? Tell the dream and leave it at that, IF and a grand if at that any one of us is going to be so astute as to p r o n o u n c e anything whatsoever, any word, any thought, any direction or forth-telling there can be absolutely NO equivocation, none! When this is done the whole credibility is out the window by sheer definition. IF you have heard from the Lord you have heard from the Lord, If HE says something is going to come to pass it will come to pass in the time-line and at the time that the one who spoke the words said it will or it is NOT from the Lord. Period….

No one to take notice of just how much our very faith is built on the foundation of true prophecy. This is what we tell the world, that Jesus Christ came as it was spoken of Him in Holy Writ. This is prophecy! And yet we would throw the whole thing on to a dung hill, yet another issue of the National Enquirer ready for the trash bin….


It has to stop, though it won't. We will have false prophets amongst us as it has been ... prophesied. Strange enough as it seems, false is false and yet there is also an aspect of 'intent to injure' or even the drawing off of disciples unto oneself that finds it's way into this muddy mix. Yes, I think there is a distinction to be made as far as our brothers here are concerned but I do not know where we merit out or dictate the results of all this, let me just plainly state it, the punishment or lack of. Sometimes the pain of forgiveness is as excruciating. That must be left to them and to the Lord. I hesitate to even say these words, I am an unprofitable servant, these are observations and compellings if you will, but for the life of me if we cannot address these things head on then where pray tell will be in the days and weeks ahead, as long as the lord tarries?”



---------------------------------------------

Agreed, in fact the very first post that I made on SI began with that very verse from Jeremiah.

To add to clarification and take away from the confusion that is apparent in so many regarding “prophesy” and “prophet”:

According to Vincent”s Word Studies: The popular conception of a prophet is limited to his foretelling future events. This is indeed included in the term, but does not cover its meaning entirely. The word is from φημί, to speak, and πρό, before, in front of. This meaning of the preposition may have reference to time, viz., before, beforehand; or to place, viz., in front of, and so, publicly; and this latter meaning, in turn, easily runs into that of in behalf of; for. The prophet is, therefore, primarily, one who speaks standing before another, and thus forming a medium between him and the hearer. This sense runs naturally into that of instead of. Hence it is the technical term for the interpreter of a divine message. So Plato: “For this reason it is customary to appoint diviners or interpreters to be judges of the true inspiration. Some persons call them diviners, seers (μάντεις); they do not know that they are only repeaters of dark sayings and visions, and are not to be called diviners at all, but interpreters (προφῆται) of things divine” (“Timaeus,” 72). Similarly of an advocate to speak for, or instead of one. The central idea of the word is, one to whom God reveals himself and through whom he speaks. The revelation may or may not relate to the future. The prophet is a forth-teller, not necessarily a foreteller. The essence of the prophetic character is immediate intercourse with God. One of the Hebrew names for “prophet,” and, as some maintain, the earlier name, signified a shewer or seer. See 1 Corinthians 14:26–30, Paul shows that revelation stands in necessary connection with prophesying.
In the New Testament, as in the Old, the prominent idea is not prediction, but the inspired delivery of warning, exhortation, instruction, judging, and making manifest the secrets of the heart…The New-Testament prophets are distinguished from teachers, by speaking under direct divine inspiration.
Let us prophesy
Not in the Greek.
According to the proportion of faith (κατὰ τὴν ἀναλογίαν τῆς πίστεως)
Ἁναλογία proportion, occurs only here in the New Testament. In classical Greek it is used as a mathematical term. Thus Plato: “The fairest bond is that which most completely fuses and is fused into the things which are bound; and proportion (ἀναλογία) is best adapted to effect such a fusion” (“Timaeus,” 31). “Out of such elements, which are in number four, the body of the world was created in harmony and proportion” (“Timaeus,” 32). Compare “Politicus,” 257. The phrase here is related to the measure of faith (v. 3). It signifies, according to the proportion defined by faith. The meaning is not the technical meaning expressed by the theological phrase analogy of faith, sometimes called analogy of scripture, i.e., the correspondence of the several parts of divine revelation in one consistent whole. This would require ἡ πίστις the faith, to be taken as the objective rule of faith, or system of doctrine (see on Acts 6:7), and is not in harmony with v. 3, nor with according to the grace given. Those who prophesy are to interpret the divine revelation “according to the strength, clearness, fervor, and other qualities of the faith bestowed upon them; so that the character and mode of their speaking is conformed to the rules and limits which are implied in the proportion of their individual degree of faith” (Meyer). unquote.


What Paul says in the 14th chapter of 1 Corinthians if my elementary understanding of the original text is correct (that does not contain the word “gifts” at all but rather uses a word that contrasts spirituality with carnality, which is the theme that he introduced early on in the letter) is that they (we) should seek to be spiritual rather than carnal… and their carnality had been displayed by their pride regarding their superior spirituality in the use of “tongues” rather than seeking to plainly and clearly seek to reveal the clear message of the scriptures and the words of Christ. This is the “prophesying” that he was advocating.

For a long time now the definition that I heard as a youngster from a long deceased man of God was that prophesying was far more forth-telling than fore-telling. In fact even the Old Testament prophets spoke directly to their generation, forth-telling as much or more than fore-telling, with a message of repentance for their then-present sins with warnings regarding what would happen if they didn’t…i.e. the judgments of God would fall, and promises for their good if they repented. Many, if not most of those warnings were based strictly upon the already “chiseled in stone so-to-speak” warnings in the Book of Moses, the Law (especially those in Deuteronomy which are still being fulfilled, thinking specifically of the 28th chapter which many have wrested as they do the other scriptures). The prophesies were not predictive per se, in many cases any more than one can read the already recorded Word of God now, that already has the authority of “thus saith the Lord” because it is the eternal inerrant unchanging Word of God that has two options just as it always has… the option to repent and be saved or rebel and be damned.

To be quite frank I believe this thread and this humiliating exposure can and should serve as a warning to all of us not only regarding what we may have considered immature and spiritually ignorant utterances, but regarding those of men that may be in the spotlight and regarded by many as “the man of the hour”. To preach faithfully the Word of God, considering carefully and prayerfully the context and declaring cautiously in love what the text says, and applying the practical implications of the text, applying the text to the times, as God leads, just as He did with the scriptures used in the early church, with men of diverse backgrounds and diverse callings from Stephen the martyr to the apostle Paul… that is certainly sufficient “prophecy” to carry us all the way to the end. In fact when you consider what the apostle John said at the end of his prophecy at the very end of the Bible itself…(Revelation 22:18) and the cautions in Deuteronomy 4:2, 12:32, Proverbs 30:6, Matthew 15:6-9 among others…. Anyone bold enough to preach or teach their dream, vision, revelation, or whatever else rather than sticking to the
Book and keeping what they “feel” in their spirit to themselves and God, is taking a very bold step indeed.

Certainly God can send prophecies in the sense of future events, but then as the song asks, “what more can He say than to you He hath said, To you who for refuge to Jesus have fled?” It is abundantly true that an element of pride can very easily be attached to this "God showed ME" thing, so much so that Paul, as much as he suffered for Christ, confessed that BECAUSE of the revelations he had had, the Lord sent a messenger of Satan to buffet him lest he, this humble slave of Christ get puffed up!

I was reared in a church atmosphere were one spurious “prophet” (in the sense of those who tried to have a word regarding the future) after another came through and all they accomplished was “making the heart of the righteous sad… and strengthening the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way by promising him life” (see Ezekiel 13:22)… Or either stirring up some folks with a false expectation that ended in disillusionment causing the “way of truth to be evil spoken of”.

When the Lord and the apostles told us repeatedly to let NO ONE deceive us in the context of the warnings regarding the last days, a healthy skepticism is in order for any “God showed me” utterance that is not already clearly “shown” in the Word of God.

Sorry, but I will always be skeptical regarding anyone who has a message for the Whole Church, as if there are not plenty of men of God who are in touch with God and can seek His face and hear from Him from His Word without having to hear and revere someone’s else’s dream or vision or revelation outside HIS word. Remember what God said to Elijah when he thought he was the only one left. We can see by all the messages available on this site that God is not and will not just speak through one person… “in the mouth of two or three witnesses, let every word be established”.

That is not to say at all that God can not and does not have those whom He can use to warn us of things to come, but then it is not the added word, but the Living Word who speaks through His Written Word through which He has made such exceeding precious promises.

The Words are abundantly true and will always be true because they are unquestionably the Word of God indeed, and the whole context is important as well:
Jeremiah 23:28 - 29 (KJV) 28The prophet that hath a dream, let him tell a dream; and he that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat? saith the LORD. 29Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?

I was reading one of the early church fathers, Chrysostom in his commentary on the letter to the Galatians and thought these words were appropriate in relation to the subject before us:
{ “And would pervert the Gospel of Christ.” (Galatians 1:7)
They had, in fact, only introduced one or two commandments,
circumcision and the observance of days, but he says that the Gospel was
subverted, in order to show that a slight adulteration vitiates the whole.
For as he who but partially pares away the image on a royal coin renders
the whole spurious, so he who swerves ever so little from the pure faith,
soon proceeds from this to graver errors, and becomes entirely corrupted.
Where then are those who charge us with being contentious in separating
from heretics, and say that there is no real difference between us except
what arises from our ambition? Let them hear Paul’s assertion, that those
who had but slightly innovated, subverted the Gospel.

Know you not that even under the elder covenant, a man who gathered sticks on the sabbath, and transgressed a single commandment, and that not a great one, was punished with death? (Numbers 15:32, 36.) and that Uzzah, who supported the Ark when on the point of being overturned, was struck suddenly dead, because he had intruded upon an office which did not pertain to him? (2 Samuel 6:6, 7.) Wherefore if to transgress the sabbath, and to touch the falling Ark, drew down the wrath of God so signally as to deprive the offender of even a momentary respite, shall he who corrupts unutterably awful doctrines find excuse and pardon? Assuredly not. A want of zeal in small matters is the cause of all our calamities; and because slight errors escape fitting correction, greater ones creep in. As in the body, a neglect of wounds generates fever, mortification, and death; so in the soul, slight evils overlooked open the door to graver ones.}


What is the point? The point is that we have a full revelation in the Word of God. The Lord Jesus Christ answered the devil with “it is written”. If it was sufficient for Him it ought to be for us. The written Word has everything we need to consume our energies and strength and enough to reveal to us all we need to know regarding the future:

David said, Psalms 119:160 (NKJV) 160 The entirety of Your word is truth, And every one of Your righteous judgments endures forever.
The Lord Jesus quoted to the devil the scripture from Deuteronomy 8:3 Matthew 4:4 (NKJV) 4But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’”
It is not just one scripture or one phrase or one verse, but the whole. It is every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.
Paul said to those whom he was about to leave for the last time at Ephesus:
Acts 20:26 - 27 (NKJV) 26Therefore I testify to you this day that I am innocent of the blood of all men. 27For I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God.

To simply study as Paul admonished Timothy to "rightly divide the Word of God" is a lifetime task. And to exemplify it is certainly the point of that challenge.

Please... why seek to obtain some "office" before even getting to know the Book and the Author.

Clint


_________________
Clint Thornton

 2008/1/2 7:12Profile









 Re:

Amen Broclint well said.

 2008/1/2 8:13









 Re: PS to Rahman and Ironman

After error, repentance

After repentance, forgiveness

After forgiveness, restoration

After restoration, comissioning anew in His service

Love in Him

Jeannette

 2008/1/2 12:09
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK

 Re:

LittleGift Said:

I and others were probably at fault in that we tried to apply the comfort first, (partly in reaction to what was perceived as the condemnation of others) before the repentance!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It has been good to see how the diffrent giftings in Gods people have come to the surface in there postings.

The prophetic gifting has come to the surface on here and can come across as harsh and judgemental. A person who is prophetic has to be careful that he does not cause death by a thousand lashes. Meaning that he can see what is wrong through that gifting but comes and speaks out of the flesh to deal with it. This can and does cause great pain to others.

Then there has been the shepherds the ones who care, guide and protect the sheep. That is where I would put you. They think about the person but they to have to careful of getting in to the flesh and trying to protect that which should not be protected.

Then there was the teachers they focus on changing lives by helping others understand the Bible better, giving attention to details and accuracy. They to have to careful as well that the don't get boring and cause sleep by a thousand Hebrew meanings.

I can say that I have learned and experienced God at work in his people on this posting.

Rom 8 v28 And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose.
-------------------------------------------------

LittleGift Said:
Forgot to say that I appreciate that profound post. The prophet IS the message. YES!!!

Thanks for the compliment I have re-read it myself a few times and was encourged by another brothers post where he reminds us that we are to be living Epistles or LIVING LETTERS.

Very challenging !!!!!!!!!!


_________________
Colin Murray

 2008/1/2 12:19Profile









 Re:

Quote:

murrcolr wrote:
Then there has been the shepherds the ones who care, guide and protect the sheep. That is where I would put you. They think about the person but they to have to careful of getting in to the flesh and trying to protect that which should not be protected.

Thank you Brother, that is so very true. And, like a sheepdog, I can sometimes try to bite those who I perceive as hurting the flock!

In Him

Jeannette

 2008/1/2 13:06





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