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broclint
Member



Joined: 2006/8/1
Posts: 370
West Monroe, LA

 Re:

jimp quote: in reality isaiah prophesied wrongly in hezekiahs case

Could you elaborate on that statement with chapter and verse please... not disputing just need a little clarification.

And the other example regarding the old prophet causing death to the young prophet... could you clarify how that relates to a prophet prophesying falsely? In that case the young prophet said what was absolutely true and it came to pass during the days of Josiah. The old prophet mislead the young prophet by purposely lying, so how does that relate? Not trying to start and argument but just trying to see where you are coming from or going?

As to the "profits", I totally agree as I mentioned in another post, not by that name, but regarding one of the "profits" that another poster was highly defending while condemning this whole SI site.

Clint :-)


_________________
Clint Thornton

 2007/12/31 2:25Profile
dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re: I can say

I'm posting this under Bro Clints last comments because it helps keep things inorder. I did want to comment about what many including Mike Compton has said. To error in prophesy is of the most serious nature, however there is grace which we can offer in this case under NT covenant. However Like Jeremiah who told God that He fooled him, if this situation is handled properly by ironman and rahman they can come out of this with a geniune Word from God and that will be spot on. I do believe that in order for this to happen they will have to do a sort of self impossed period of silence as to the saying of anything predictive in nature, that is only one side of a prophet, a very limited side, as the prophet operates in encouragement toward others that almost supercedes natural knowledge. I do know some individuals who are what I consider prophets, they seem to protect thier words much like many protect thier monies or investments, they tend to have an extra ordinary prayer life and they will spend years waiting on just one vision or dream to be clarified to thier understanding before you will hear anything of it from thier lips, I have a friend from Africa (he'll be here this week) the first thing he does when he gets here (after resting a day and night), is he'll go into the church and spend the next3 days at least praying without ceasing and fasting, he does this every time he is here, he has a real handle on the workings of God and God's Word. Very seldom have I heard him speak predictive, but when he does it causes something deep inside you to start to cry out to the Lord, sometimes in repentance, mostly you are humbled. It has been said of the FBI that when they teach thier agents how to spot counterfeit dollars what they do to train them is to have them study the real thing, in that way when they come across that which is counterfeit they easily reconize it, I've always thought that was a good practice. One of these days I may start a post on the mark or nature of Godly prophesy and prophets, but I don't have the time and energy now.


_________________
D.Miller

 2007/12/31 8:35Profile
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

Again I didnt say peter prophesied wrong. I said he was a prophet and was wrong.
But now that you mention it his prophecy concerning himself was definately wrong and Jesus had to correct him.
But he went on to fulfill his prophetic office...and that is the point.
Look my whole point to this is........dont label a man a false prophet because he sees something and misinteerprets or God intervenes
I was in times square church when Dave wilkerson prophecied "a thousand fires" over NY.
He did not set a time frame. It has NOT happened. And this was many, many years ago
Was Dave wrong?
Could intercession have stopped disaster?

Is dave human?
You try to make the prophetic one dimensional
And it helps the false prophet cause.
I am currently doing a "false prophet" word study.
My own little study.
I never even looked at the false prophet verses.
There isnt a whole lot of merit in it.
It like doing a study on the devil.
Neither of them impress me.
I did find one verse in the old testiment but it specifically stated "one who causes God's people to worship the devil"
some of the verses in the new testiment people so quickly ascribe to modern charismatics, are specifically refering to the beast and antichrist in revelation.
Which by the way the great deception is not here yet.
Those that belong to Jesus will not be deceived.
Oh sure we may be deceived but Jesus never is.

You people talk to me as if I am making a case that the only good prophet is a wrong prophet.

The false concepts concerning the prophetic mantle here on si are a perfect incubator to mislead.
Why do you think the church suffers deadness?
We have deaf and dumb churches.
No prophetic.
When is the last time you heard a prophecy in church?
And you most likely wont. Why?
Because those with prophetic mantles know if they miss it [AND THEY WILL] the breatheren will beat them down like dogs.
Anybody with prophetic gift needs a loving enviroment to develop their gift.
You never will have anything perfect.
Teachers miss it, pastors miss it,missionarys see prayer unanswered , and guess what? prophets miss it too!
My guess is {and this always happens] since the false prophet label is so liberally applied that it creates a glass house.
Will the USS berean ship's spotlight shine on its own belly?
Time will tell!

David

 2007/12/31 9:17Profile
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Right is Right - Wrong is Wrong ...



Bro Dave you wrote;
"Being wrong doesnt mean squat."

--- i truly appreciate your heart, your love, but i agree with bro Mike ... Wrong means you're wrong, and God is about right ... Listen, in all this i'm finally brought to this point of culmination, it's truly almost done, so i've been on this weird faith journey of mine across a span of 20+ years, when i look back on it i really could not tell you how i got here but i did, and our Lord has been good to me in that He's kept me all this time, He didn't kill me if i'm proven to be wrong, neither has He struck me with any sickness or disease, a neither did He answer any of my prayers to free me of this during all the time that i excercised in the things i believe i was hearing from Him to do until the first of 2007 when i heard in my spirit (that same voice) "This is the Year" ... i took it to mean what i've stated previously concerning the fall of the US economy and REVIVAL coming to my church home, i also said that i heard Him say that i should proclaim it, and i have ... Now to be proven wrong in any of this, especially under
proclamation that it's a word from God, does make me "wrong", "false", and therefore worthy to have such words and works thrown in the fire because the bottom line is they're proven to be not of our Lord ... Right is right, wrong is wrong, so please don't try to defend what would be proven to be indefensible, instead as i myself would be doing, take the lesson of what can happen to a saint if we somehow get way past God ... To be proven not in the employ of our Lord in these matters will certainly change my view on "This is the Year", as i will then take it to mean that this was the year in which i, and all whom i've touched, would finally be freed from my folly, my nonsense, and that will be fine by me because all that i've done has been done in the face of much opposition, and in the faith of what if it is our Lord talking to me" ...
Perhaps to much OT influence in my upbringing to listen to those who've tried to deter me in the past, but that OT upringing said to me to keep hanging on to the promise of what you believe you've heard Him say to you ... Even now i'm doing so, and as i've said to many a saint who've been concerned about my weird faith, it's something that only God Himself could free me from, and that time is here ... i feel like i've been on a hook for some 20+ years in all this, one frankly i've not enjoyed at all - especially this past year, and one way or the other He's about to take me off of it ---


 2007/12/31 9:23Profile
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re: Obstacles Should be Removed ...


Bro Mike you wrote;
"Or are trying to turn this all back to biblical moorings."

--- Amen, and as i said i for one will be glad to have been moved out of the way ---


Bro Mike you wrote;
"A long response forthcoming."

[color=CC3300]--- Edit 12/31/07: Original comment and laughing face icon deleted as per PaulWest comments below and my explanation in my following post ---[/color]

 2007/12/31 9:26Profile
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

If a person wants to understand a prophet .....unless you are under a prophetic mantle you wont understand them.
They see differently.
They almost have to because heaven speaks a different language than us.
It is inverted and coded.
similar to the parables.
Look at all the times Jesus never answered.
Or answered with a question.
The job of the leadership is to recognize the gifts that are on Gods people.


David

 2007/12/31 9:31Profile
broclint
Member



Joined: 2006/8/1
Posts: 370
West Monroe, LA

 Re: those with prophetic mantles know if they miss it [AND THEY WILL] the breatheren will beat them


2 Timothy 2:23 - 26 (NKJV) 23But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. 24And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, 25in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, 26and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.

Thank God for those on SI who have the knowledge and discernment to recognize what is the calling of the prophet and have handled their discernment with courtesy, compassion, and godly correction.
Truth is not a beating and brethren do not beat their brethren, it is the hypocrites and sinners and false prophets who beat the brethren. ;-)

Clint


_________________
Clint Thornton

 2007/12/31 9:43Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re: Obstacles Should be Removed ...

Quote:
--- Of that i have no doubt :-P ---



Brother, you are on the verge of great shame and humiliation - and yet you stil find it in you to laugh. I am not writing this to scoff, but in wonder and sadness. How is it that something like this can be taken so lightly, so jocularly? We should be in the dust, trembling, shamed and low and not posting with "laughing faces."

Does the severity of God not phase us any longer? It is precisely because of this that the ungodly and heathen mock us and blaspheme God. If the integrity of God is not taken seriously even by his own children, what can be said about those that are without?


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2007/12/31 10:26Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Prophetic Credentials I, II, III

David you are making quite the muddle out of all this. You are going to have to make a distinction across all these lines, the ones spoken within these posts\threads and the comparing of both scripture and other examples, such as David Wilkerson.

There are things contained within these posts spanning quite some time that are indeed [i]specific[/i] with specific dates\time-lines. One aspect. There are others 'vague' as to time-lines and still others vague period by way of being mentioned 'in general'. Others here are correct in pointing out where you are erring by way of applying all this so loosely to specifics.

I had shaved an earlier response after seeing MC better articulate it, a remnant from it;

[i]What is the point of particular 'prophecy' if it is not to be heeded in the first place? If it is riddled with doubt or is indeed wrong and therby false there never was anything to do with it at the inception? Are we to be in the educated guess business or are we purporting to be speaking in God's stead with a caveat of ... 'never mind, it wasn't really that important' as a sort of back up, just in case? That is what we will be saying if we continue to turn a blind eye to these things. And that is predominantly what has been going on now for many years, these 'prophets' expect us to listen to them when they speak at the beginning and then start backtracking when it comes time to put up the goods. And then along comes someone to their defense to smooth it all over. Who cares what this all looks like or what reproach it all brings upon the Lord and His Church.

Think there is no ramifications from these things? Remember Y2K?

Right or wrong is indeed the litmus test for these utterances. Either it is so or it is not so, either God has spoken or He has not. Either the prophecy is true and the proof of it is measurable and accurate or the Lord has not spoken and the 'prophet' is not a prophet.[/i]

Feel free to disregard it however, there is much more to be pointed out.

Went back and did some homework and some digging through the archives here. A quick insertion, saints if I may say it ... [i]go and do likewise![/i] the things you come across here, the things all but forgotten about, the surprises and self-indictment of even ourselves, the true depth of love and concern, the misunderstandings ... it just goes on and on and on.

To the matter at hand. There are volumes to be read here and though I am branching off into generalities, David please avail yourself of these things again, this is not simple and you are jumping to great conclusions here.

Had a difficult time tracking it down but the first of this now long 'trilogy';

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=5425&forum=35]Prophetic Credentials.....[/url]

A important and helpful post with some definitions of all these considerations;

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=14746&forum=35&post_id=&refresh=Go]The Spirit of Prophecy[/url]

If that isn't enough to satisfy the curiosity or desire, what have you, yet another;

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=14379&forum=36]To all the "Prophets"[/url]

I do want to set forth some precedence of intent and firmly even adamantly make a proper distinction once again before this all begins to play out before our eyes. There must be a distinction. MC has attempted it, I have myself, others and with some apology to Ron wanted to lift up this subsection again as a first fruit so there is no mistaking motive, there is a agreement here spiritually that I have no qualms associating with those who have a dissenting, if it must be put that way, point of view about this important topic. From page 3 of this thread;

Philologos is here responding to Rahman;

Subject: [b]Love is not easily provoked ...[/b]

Quote:
perhaps we could just disagree on these points in love and not call one another "liars" veiled in scripture as you did in reference to bro Ironman “thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:” ...



It was not a veiled accusation of 'liars' and you misjudge me to accuse me so. If you recall your earlier declaration that "God had told the last revival was going to break out in your home church' you will know that I tried to 'cut you some slack' so that you could back-peddle from the categoric statements you were making. Yes, I will challenge self-styled prophets and apostles because this is a public forum and such claims if made here should be challenged here.

You judge me of being mean-spirited. God knows my heart. Neither do I have any ' quest to whack him. Neither do I have 'contempt' for you, nor have I ever had contempt for you. I think you are given to flights of imagination that have lured you into the fantasies of Enoch and into thinking that your imaginings are prophetic.

Quote:
Until i have a report of REVIVAL breaking out at my church this is all that i have to say on this subject for as i afore-statated i heard our Lord say to me "Just Be", and i also don't want to be party to having this thread locked - just wanted to answer your question brother Ron.



This is all I have to say on the subject too. I am content to wait to see if your prophecy was God-inspired or man-inspired unless, of course, you refer to it or to self-claimed prophetic gifts when I will examine and challenge as I think appropriate.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A number of reasons for drawing this back up. One is to settle this right now about where we are coming from because this is going to be quite serious as it goes forward. Secondly it affords an opportunity to state something that I must state and may you forgive me brother if it is somewhat ... too personal.

There are some precious and forever treasured memories that came forth from the recent Revival Conference this past October in Canton, Ohio. It is difficult to isolate one from another, brother from brother, saint from saint, the names flow freely and easily ... The prayers and hearts, the small things, the unspoken things those who were there know, know what I speak of. I must declare to you that there is an extraordinary heart in all these brothers, but Ron very well may engulf them all in a way that defies my explanation. I still am just in a state of astonishment how much was communicated in sheer embrace without hardly a word spoken. In the three days time I doubt there was but a handful of actual words spoken to each other and yet the volumes that passed between, from eternity past to the present to the future, I knew this going in and yet still it was surpassed. This is a pastor of over 40 years experience whose great love of the Lord and His church and of us .. it just surpasses. He ought to be respected and heard, his words weighed carefully, prayerfully ... It is a concern borne of sheer love.



_________________
Mike Balog

 2007/12/31 10:30Profile
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

crsschk, Rahmans response changes everything.
I didnt want him mistreated.
But maybe I butted in.


Maybe it is best to let the chips fall where they may.

David

 2007/12/31 10:43Profile





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