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jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi, he said he might expect a morman or a jehovah witness to ask him but it is rare that a christian would. he introduced himself and told me he was ready.he invited me to his home where the friendship began. jimp

 2007/12/22 3:27Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Ravenhill and prophets

Quote:
hi, he said he might expect a morman or a jehovah witness to ask him but it is rare that a christian would. he introduced himself and told me he was ready.he invited me to his home where the friendship began. jimp



That's wonderful brother ... that whole dialouge just warms the heart, guess just that prompting you had and where it all led to ...

Quote:
I'm wondering how you read Daryl's post at the top of p9?

Quote:
Yet, if by 2007 our economy doesn't collapse in some fashion according to their descriptions of suffering and lamentation, then we know they haven't prophesied but merely imagined and believed.



"Date stamp", comes to mind as it often does. "This is the year of ______". "The Lord will pour out His anointing because _______ (Fill in an appropriate scripture verse). There is no end to it and worse no accounting for any of it. What was the "word from the Lord" for 2007? From 2006 and 1978 and all the years in-between? It is noise and confusion, where are the things that are so, indefensible and without equivocation? The things spoken and things that happened [i]exactly[/i] as they were purportedly 'fiat-ed' to coin a word as 'God said' they would? I am talking about precision and not 'perfection' if that could be grasped.

Give me two old ladies praying in a barn for a minister to come speak to their people and then have that minister prompted to come hundreds and hundreds of miles and show up (ala Duncan Campbell) all without the middle-man of [i]man[/i] and I believe you have something much closer to the spirit of prophecy.

This is not as difficult as it ought to be. The trouble is in having to devolve what the whole business has been setup as the structure, this strange marriage of Old Testament prophet and prophesying that Paul speaks of, there is a great deal of speaking from silence or from extrapolation that makes the whole defining process about as clear as mud. It would be redundant, but there is far more an emphasis and dare I say an implication that prophesying is [i]teaching[/i] ... but I digress, this is not the 'popular' view and the 'prophets' will come out en masse to explain it, defend it all for us.

I am not trying to be curt nor haughty here but there is something of credulity and creditability at stake here, what about ... [i]the Lords testimony[/i]? All this stuff, all these things spoken, for the greater part are the Christian version of the Globe or The National Enquirer and no one seemingly cares how much of a blight it is on the Person and misrepresentation of the Lord. The world is watching and waiting for witness in truth and we give them ... spurious predictions and follow it all up with a 'well ... it [u]could be[/u] that the Lord granted mercy or is delaying or, or, or ...' Such rubbish, it is giving an out and a excuse rather than a calling on the carpet, an accounting. It is a fix and a cloak for just more and more of the same. I am sorry, I mean to smite no one but somehow there has to be a better understanding of this. There are prophets and prophesying going on in this very forum and it has been going on for a long time, the trouble is we don't acknowledge them as such, they don't consider themselves as such by 'title' but they are those who are speaking life into the Body, not predictions of market collapse and ... I will go out on the limb, 'coming destruction'. This is what may seem 'apparent' from reading current states of things especially here in self-absorbed America, but there is just as much if not more fodder for destruction due to nations around the world for their transgressions, for injustice, for worshiping false idols and the whole itinerary.

There is something quite ironic just to look at the stock market itself. Admittedly, I am but a mere novice yet I have a stake in it due to the graciousness of my employer granting some options. Trust that I am indeed paying attention and just observing it all ... It is uncanny but if you want 'prophets' my, the correlations that could be drawn. "Speculators" there's a word with some ramifications, dare I say these are also our modern day equivalents? "This, that and the other is what is coming\happening - my chart proves _____" "It's a bull". It's a bear". "Recession!" "No, just a correction". The language itself is interchangeable with our 'prophets'. There are some very smart people and there are some very stupid ---- Let me insert I am of this later ilk ---- that are being swept up and cajoled into it, dare I say because they do not understand it or just put there trust in ... 'the prophets'. My stupidity is in missing it when it would have been a good time to sell, but I have a goal to get out of debt and patience has yet to completely prove this wrong, I for one certainly do not wish to see this whole thing collapse, call it greedy or materialistic but I must wonder at the .... welcoming of disaster, what ever happened to;

[i]Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.[/i] Amo 5:18

Please, it is the principle underneath it all it does not need to be defended or explained, I know this is not in most hearts, I just wonder if we may have well forgotten just all what this truly means.

Do we [i]know[/i] what we speak of? Or are we just poking around with current events and making educated guess, mixing it up with our spirituality and turning it back out as speculative - prophesying?


_________________
Mike Balog

 2007/12/22 9:07Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 oops ...

Sister, it suddenly dawned on me that there are two Mike's here and I may have misinterpreted that to myself, when you were addressing MC. My apologies for launching off from there ...


_________________
Mike Balog

 2007/12/22 9:40Profile
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re: This makes me sad

Hi Dorcas,

Yes, I did read Dohzman's posts. I was blessed by his perspective on the mercy of God, even as judgement is being threatened. I am doubly blessed knowing that this is the real Daryl, having had the honor of him praying and speaking with me at the altar in Canton. And I have a fresh cup of coffee waiting for him in Columbus...

I can only offer that I accept what he said fully, yet try not to infer anything from it in relationship to the specific predictions we are discussing in this thread.

Indeed, this is perhaps one of the great pitfalls that lead to mis-spoken words. We infer what was never implied from our personal experiences with the Lord. I've shared in other threads how people have spoken 'words' to me...some of which I believe are authentic. Yet, I've learned to leave them where I found them rather then to extrapolate their meaning or to project their conclusions.

Consider this analogy of sincere but faulty extrapolation from something that is true into something that is not true: You are supposed to be flying from Chicago to Hong Kong but you discover your passenger jet is heading towards the North Pole. So you stand up and shout to the other passengers that the jet is off course! Soon a stewardess assures you that the pilot knows what he is doing but you point to the radar screen proving that the plane is indeed close to Alaska already. People begin to wonder if you are correct...

Likewise our very atmosphere is filled with prognostications of dispair. Dommsaying is not a prophetic event but a secular one. This is not to say that Ironman and Rhaman were wrong...but it is to point out that one does not need to be a Christian to predict problems for the country and the world. It might well be that fearful predictions are simply the flu symptoms of contagious angst that slips into our dreams after an evening of meditating on CNN and Fox news. Our plane is headed for disaster...but when? What shape? How sudden? To what outcome? What does it mean?

My point is not to denounce any prediction, but only to say that predictions can't be tested except by the outcome. And if the outcome isn't as plain as the prediction given, then it has failed the test.

If we offer fine arguments, such as that the outcome is invisible, or has not manifested in the 'natural' yet, then we are begging the issue. We are making prophesy to be pointless because none of us can measure it to tell when it is something true or not. It is as mysterious as the stuff of Nostradamus. (Was Hisler really intended to mean Hitler? Does it matter anymore?)

I am not so superstitious as to believe God will hold us accountable for unintelligable prophecies. He's written his Word in our language because ostensibly he means to communicate...I imagine the word of his prophets will be consistent with the character of His Word. If 1.1.08 arrives and there is no plainly recognizable disaster, then what more is there to say regarding the prediction of such?

Some have pointed out that Jonah was made to look like a false prophet by the Lord's mercy. I do not believe this is not a good comparison, because Ninevah famously repented from the King down. I doubt that the same well-intentioned people who want to compare Ironman and Rhaman to Jonah would compare America's spiritual state to the repentence of Ninevah.

And a comparison to Jonah overlooks one other plainly evident fact: Jonah was affirmed a prophet by the scriptures. We hardly need anymore proof then that.

Now, on a personal note, I offer frankly that Ironman's heart is truer then my own. He is spontaneous, honest, and transparent, while I am often calculating and cautious to the point of vanity. Having had the pleasure of talking with him over the phone I find he loves the Lord without a hint of irony or guile, and is pursuaded completely of his coming. His passion to be a complete desciple is encouraging. I believe the same is for Rhaman.

As I said before, the spotlight is shifting from these two brothers, to the rest of us. How important is the gift of prophesy to us? How important is God's word to us? Are we willing to lay down our reputations for it? Or are our reputations more important then the fidelity of the Gospel...because the credibility of the Gospel is exactly what we erode when we make room for spiritual spinning. If we announce that the same God who gave us the Gospel also told us that the economy will collapse by 2007, and it doesn't...then we have to make a choice which Word is true.

We care for Ironman and Rhaman, but do we care for the other brothers and sisters who have to work out for themselves between truth and fiction. Let's be honest...we can't lie to ourselves even if we wanted to on this matter. We may pretend that nothing controversial happened, but inside we would know better...and the reality of our testimony within this online community would suffer.

Or we can use this as an opportunity to grow together.

Blessings,

MC


_________________
Mike Compton

 2007/12/22 11:44Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 dear saints

Greetings in Jesus' Name by Whose Blood we are Saved.AMEN.

this thread is certainly a blast from the past; given that the year is about to end it is timely also given what i believe our Lord had me say on Prophetic Credentials 3. i see much of the focus is on the economic judgment, there is also fire which will fall from the sky upon New York and D.C. the nature of which i can only say is only explainable as God though men will explain it every other way.

i suppose the future fascinates us, so much so that the term 'prophet" is oft identified as one who fortells the future. This is true to some degree, however the work of the Prophet has always been to relay the Heart of God to His people, sometimes this involves telling forth what is to come. Most of the time though, what we read in the prophets is God pouring His Heart out to a vessel and sending him with that message.

bro Mike Balog said:

Quote:
This is not as difficult as it ought to be. The trouble is in having to devolve what the whole business has been setup as the structure, this strange marriage of Old Testament prophet and prophesying that Paul speaks of, there is a great deal of speaking from silence or from extrapolation that makes the whole defining process about as clear as mud. It would be redundant, but there is far more an emphasis and dare I say an implication that prophesying is teaching ... but I digress, this is not the 'popular' view and the 'prophets' will come out en masse to explain it, defend it all for us.



i've posted perhaps 1800+/- on these boards and i would guess maybe 100 at most have had to do with what i believe will happen in the next few days or the future in general. Most of what God has had me do is question, exhort or minister to in some other way. i agree with you in that there is to be more in terms of teaching from the N.T. prophet. i would ask though, is it possible that in our own fascination with the future we have paid much more attention to what has been spoken of the future (true or not) and not taken into account some of the other things with as much fervor which have been said?

you said also:

Quote:
I am not trying to be curt nor haughty here but there is something of credulity and creditability at stake here, what about ... the Lords testimony? All this stuff, all these things spoken, for the greater part are the Christian version of the Globe or The National Enquirer and no one seemingly cares how much of a blight it is on the Person and misrepresentation of the Lord.



to be sure there is quite a bit of this going on which i have found grievious. Some have made a in industry like unto Balaam.

you said also:

Quote:
There are prophets and prophesying going on in this very forum and it has been going on for a long time, the trouble is we don't acknowledge them as such, they don't consider themselves as such by 'title' but they are those who are speaking life into the Body, not predictions of market collapse and ... I will go out on the limb, 'coming destruction'. This is what may seem 'apparent' from reading current states of things especially here in self-absorbed America, but there is just as much if not more fodder for destruction due to nations around the world for their transgressions, for injustice, for worshiping false idols and the whole itinerary.



bro you know you could have just named names here on who is talking about collapse! :-P or perhaps it is just understood! :-P

anyhow, the prophet is constrained to whatever God gives him to speak. believe me i'd much rather not have spoken any of the things i believe God has had me say for obvious reasons. my personality type is phlegmatic which means i'd much rather blend in and go unnoticed. bro there have been a lot of dark times during this period concerning all this which you couldn't know about unless i told you. i've wept a lot, grieved a lot and Lord knows i'd much rather be quiet in a corner somewhere so i don't say any of these things with any ease at all. some things i guess aren't communicable over the net. i fear that maybe i'm the one trippin and bringing shame to His Name by assigning things to Him which aren't from Him at all but from my own folly. that's not a thing one can just brush over. concurrently i fear that if indeed this is God and i say nothing, then God will hold me responsible for that silence...if the former i look foolish and rightly so but worse i've brought reproach to the NAme of God, if there is a thing i fear bro, it is that. however i fear also the consequences for those who didn't get the memo coz i was too afraid to speak out...i've chosen to speak out and as i said, if this isn't from God it won't happen and i'll come on these boards, apologize to you all, repent and recant before all and sit down and be quiet, you won't have to worry about hearing anything nutso like that from me again...

bro Mike, i'm sure you could go back through my posts and see that there aren't that many which speak of the coming collapse and that perhaps, maybe God has blessed some saints by saying something through me. again i wonder if perhaps our fascination with the future may cause us to focus more on things spoken of it rather than other things spoken here. also bro Chris did say that all this has caused him to pray all the more for our nation, and it has caused me to do the same also, i'm not sure that qualifies as "speaking Life into the body" perhaps it does but i was encouraged that at least one brother was so moved.

if i may be candid bro, there are times i have hoped i was wrong that things would just go on, and yet if this is all life is, i've had enough...there is something i believe i am desperately trying to find which i can't find here and unless God moves, this thing will go on like before and get worse...i have a wife, a 3 yr old daughter and one due in a couple of weeks, if this happens, naturally i am concerned for their safety, how would people react to seeing us out...yet God has assured me no harm should come to them. i wish i could better capture in words some of what i feel that it may be understood more fully/clearly.

if i'm wrong then i'll be dead wrong and you won't have to worry about me saying anything like this again...i'll not be found trying to recast/remix/remake that prophecy, i'll put it down as false and be quiet.i would hope that if that proves to be the case y'all would pray for me and bro R both coz we'd be in sore need of it...

in a few more days as bro R said, we'll be free from it (if this is of the flesh) or we'll be free in it if this is of God, coz if He has spoken indeed, His word will not fall to the ground for any reason whether we like, acknowledge,agree with or not.

bro Mike Compton brought up some very interesting points which i'm yet digesting, i believe it is something worth reading for us all.

Grace and PEace are ours in Jesus.AMEN.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2007/12/22 12:45Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: dear saints

Here goes nothing ...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Anyone still recall the nuclear arms race?

In those days was pretty well convinced that it was over for us all. I was in a quasi-state of understanding back then, not quite in the Light yet. I lived in great fear that this was impending and upon us, only a matter of time.

What happened? The odd thing is, not much of anything other than some ratifications and what not, the end of the cold-war. It did however disappear from the headlines of the news and today, at this very moment, one gaff, one flick of the switch and everything as we know it is dramatically changed.

Wanted to come back here and express something I fear might be lost in all this transaction. I take absolutely nothing for granted. Not a minute or a moment, not a morning or an evening. In fact every new morning is still a miracle of God's grace, there is no assumptions and to get to the point, neither a wholesale discount to whatever our own Brethren may be ... considering ... or believe they are hearing, it is never just so simple as all this. That is not giving a quarter, am just trying to be honest with this.

My allusion there was to draw back to things forgotten while we are preoccupied with what is current and in our face so to speak. If the economy does turn around and the market stabilizes next year ... what of it? And if it does not, have we now just vindicated the 'prophets'? In turn, if they are correct and these woes befall us ... What then, "I told you so?" Please recognize I am speaking in some generalites here.

A message I heard some time ago was about a missionary who awoke every morning and left his house with the thought "Today could be the day" of the Lords coming. It has stuck with me for years. I just as well expect (and pray) that it would be so ... This world holds no charm nor anything within it that wouldn't be traded for the greatest sigh of relief in all human history, an end to this madness. Still, there is the outplacement of those ... the unfinished business. That day is both incredible and terrible;

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

It could be this afternoon for all I know.

2Pe 3:11 [i]Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness[/i],

...

2Pe 3:12 [i]Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?[/i]

Seems almost to contradict the earlier verse in Amos. [i]Hasting[/i] ... A tension here, no?

2Pe 3:13 [i] Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.[/i]

The grand sigh ...

2Pe 3:14 [i]Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.[/i]

Be diligent ...

2Pe 3:15 [i]And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;[/i]

Longsuffering ... quite obvious His is far different than ours

2Pe 3:16 [i]As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.[/i]

We know quite enough of this no doubt.

2Pe 3:17 [i]Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.[/i]

"Beware" ... stedfastness

2Pe 3:18 [i]But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.[/i]

Maybe all that I wanted to add is this redundant expression of holding things in abeyance, in tension, in the 'pool of perhaps'. And lastly this word, this tremendous word;

Authenticity.

This is what is needed. In fact this [u]is[/u] [i]the definition[/i]. [i]This[/i] is the word embedded deep within, [i]this[/i] is that which good old Art Katz drove home amongst so many other things. If we cannot give the world [i]this[/i], despite what they may or may not do with it, then we are nothing but frauds and tragic comics presenting an offering of a cubic zirconia for the Real Diamond. This is the business we are trafficking in with this 'style' of prophesying, not to mention all of the Church proper, and that there cannot be a very long pause to consider the ramifications ... is well quite past me. It is compounding error when it is [i]not so[/i], this is not a favoring the odds or a perhaps and a maybe ... Isn't it strange enough when the animated prophets are so sincere and forceful and crying out at the outset and then the months and years go by and ... what? Nothing. Nothing happens and the world just goes right on by, just another gimmick, some throw away thing, a cheap plastic, fake diamond. It just makes a complete mockery of the Lord and we will say nothing to keep from offending each other.

If I am getting off track here I apologize, the considerations just keep coming;

[i] And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.[/i] Mar 13:2

What takes hold of my notice is the immediate; This [i]happened[/i]. Forget the date stamping and projecting, there is and was nothing speculative going on with this. But here is where I am trying to pull all the above together with the illustration to the nuclear war heads that we have pointed at each other, [i]right now[/i].

What was the effect on His hearers when Jesus said these words? Quite outlandish ... and quite specific. There doesn't seem to be any indication that anyone was expecting from then current events that this would be a possibility, it wasn't 'in the news' so to speak.

Something quite out of the ordinary.

We do not know and that is where I am continuing to have a great deal of issue with this whole matter. It is predominantly a 'newspaper theology' as it is termed, full of speculation also simultaneously and otherwise know as 'prophesying'. There can be but one answer and that answer is get it right or don't get it wrong, there is no wiggle room.

Now I am about to really get myself into some trouble ... For your consideration, those of us who are convinced we are indeed hearing from the Lord in this way and uttering our utterances, has it possibly occurred to anyone that this may well be none other than satan himself? I ask it as a heart searching question and not as an accusation, I am firmly still in the camp of "I do not know".

Told a brother earlier something of a secret prayer of mine in this whole regard and it is very much along these lines;

[i]And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked? Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein? [/i] Gen 18:23,24

Yet still,

[i]He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.[/i] Rev 22:20


The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen. Rev 22:21




_________________
Mike Balog

 2007/12/22 13:48Profile









 Re:

Someone on this thread had asked about S.H.A.P.E..

Some critiques can be found in the September 2006 page.

http://www.discernment-ministries.org/HerescopeArchives.htm


Sorry to interrupt.

 2007/12/22 13:55









 Re:

Quote:

crsschk wrote:
Quote:
Just a question Mike...

A while back you rejected a prophecy I posted, (it wasn't through anyone on SI), giving the reason that it was in the first person, speaking "as the Lord". At the time, though finding your response rather hurtful, (the Lord had spoken deeply to my heart through that particular word), I made no comment because there was a heated debate going on and I didn't want to cause further bad feeling.

But I'm wondering... Do you still hold to that view, or was it just a reaction to what was going on in the debate at the time?

Hi Sister, truly sorry to hear this, that you were hurt

Apology accepted, no problem on that score. However, the hurt wasn't important, but the fact that you rejected a true prophetic word. Even at the time I was at least as much hurt on your behalf as on my own! And even more on the Lord's behalf, because it was very much in line with Scripture, (Hebrews 12 for example, quoted below, although it spoke of "storms" rather than shaking). It confirmed what the Lord had already been making clear, and was a call to action, to preparation, to being prepared...

Quote:
... it is difficult not recalling what you are referring to now.

I could post it again, but don't know if it will help as you were so very resistant to it at the time, and may still be.

Quote:
Yes, still find almost all of this prophetic business as it is construed in our day to be pretty far flung and far too casual in utterance, more so when it does go into a "thus sayeth ..." mode of operation.

I can never understand why people who prophesy in meetings have to tag "thus sayeth the Lord" onto it. It seems to be a habit of speech with some I've known, regardless of whether the content of the word was actually of God or not. But, if it is a true prophecy, it ought to be obvious that it [i]is[/i] the Lord who is speaking, not the person who is saying the words. If it isn't, that prophet is risking God's judgement by speaking presumptuously.

Quote:
This still to me, keeps coming back to a definition of what it is and what it means, especially in a New Testament understanding. Actually, I may have strayed here a bit and now recognize more of what you are getting at regarding the first person as exampled by the Psalm you posted. It did catch me a bit (even back at the time I was making note of it) when I recalled that this is often the case, going back and forth as David does, others as well ... Seems to be something of prose I am fairly sure as much as anything.

I don't really see this Psalm as being 'prophetic' however.

My understanding of prophecy is simply when God speaks through a human agent. So, to me, those particular verses of Psalm 91 are prophecy!

Quote:
As MC pointed out, it isn't the person that is under scrutiny if that could be taken in the sense I mean, as much as what he or she is speaking as an 'oracle of God' or from\for Him personally... To the best of my understanding a prophecy is a "[u]so[/u]" not a "maybe" or a "perhaps" or something close, something that needs defending and explanation and so and and so forth.

True, but the word I posted was nothing at all like that!

Quote:
I still receive and still cringe at the 'prophetic' "words" given out by way of newsletter from Charisma magazine for instance...
...am still puzzled over these 'prophetic' industries and speakers and this constant free flow of contradicting ... sentiment that is produced through them. Most of it is completely vague and so general as to mean absolutely nothing at all, kind of a Christian "Horoscope" that anyone could find anything they might want to derive out of it. Only using this as an example of what has become a whole cottage industy or 'ministry' these days.

Again I agree, but that makes your point-blank rejection of the word I shared so perplexing, because it was [i]nothing[/i] like these kinds of words.

This was the Scripture from Hebrews 12. The shaking, at least the first rumblings, are upon us. The Lord needs those who will be able to stand in these days.

Luke 21:25 is also relevant:

Heb 12
[color=990000]25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.[/color]

Luke 21:
[color=990000]25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;[/color]

I'm not saying that these things are going to happen this year or next, but that they are already beginning and will escalate.

Meanwhile, as Daniel said, “Those who know their God will be strong and do exploits”.


Love in Him


Jeannette

 2007/12/22 18:49
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
M.C's: For the sake of the body, we hold prophesy to a gold standard, or the gift is fiat and good only for confusion in the church. Indeed, I fear it is already that anyways.



And if I might play upon these words, you can take true prophecy to the bank. Simply put, if God spoke it [u]will[/u] come to pass, if man spoke it [i]might[/i] come to pass.

I have been around, as many here have, a fair share of prophesying. I have noticed that at times men and women will be caught up in a moment or will mistake something that God did through them in the past as a green light to speak for Him in 'the now'. I have seen men get angry and prophesy other men's destruction and it did not come to pass. What happened? These mistook some feeling- some leaning about- some inspirational loftiness of elevation- that made them think they could speak for God, at that moment in time, [i]predictively[/i]. Anger and frustration are not inspiration and anointing. The one comes down from above, but the other is earthly, sensual, or demonic (James 3:15). It is earthly at best and demonic at worst or a combination of all three.

Sometimes we get carried along and intuitively or logically piece together information(s) as if somehow we have enough data to predict the future. I say 'intuitively' because intuition calls forth the 'a-ha' experience that can easily be mistaken for the voice of God. I think this is an important distinction to be made. If we rely on our intuition to hear from God then the enemy will give us clues that are subtle enough to lead us into error. This is a strategy. Some things can be plainly spoken and have little impact or 'weight' upon the mind and heart; but if through the process of intuition a person is led step by step to what they believe is their own conclusion then they will swallow the whole lot hook, line, and sinker. People always hold more dear to their hearts those things they believed they discovered in their own minds. But understand, it is sometimes a stacked deck that the enemy has dealt.

It is my experience, that when God really speaks to me, especially something that is drastic, I always come away in great awe and wonder. I handle what I have received with fear and trepidation. I allow God to keep dealing with me about it as opposed to going off the deep end too fast. For this cause I have practiced moderation in these types of things and cautiously not allowed myself to be deceived into destroying myself. The spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. Sometimes it is like fire shut up in our bones; but in any case one ought to always tread cautiously when they send out a "THUS SAITH THE LORD." Not so much that we fear the prophetic gifts and all, but that we don't presumptiously speak for the Lord.

As for the economy? We have an aggregate debt in the US about 48 Trillion dollars. That debt is being serviced by more debt. Our whole economy is driven by more debt and the ultimate devaluation of our currency through the ongoing increase in money supply among other things. At some point it will have to collapse. No prophet needed to predict that, only a little insight into the Federal Reserve and our modern banking system that continually loans out billions of dollars that were generated out of [i]thin air[/i].

As for these men? I believe charity is always in order. Charity and humility can walk together. It is not necessary to be a 'recognized prophet' in these last days. No need for banners and titles. If you would be stripped of it; what have you really lost?


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2007/12/22 20:09Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re: here goes nothing...

bro Mike Greetings in Jesus' Name by Whose Blood we are Saved.AMEN.

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Anyone still recall the nuclear arms race?



no...but i heard about it :-P

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My allusion there was to draw back to things forgotten while we are preoccupied with what is current and in our face so to speak. If the economy does turn around and the market stabilizes next year ... what of it? And if it does not, have we now just vindicated the 'prophets'? In turn, if they are correct and these woes befall us ... What then, "I told you so?" Please recognize I am speaking in some generalites here.



you were speaking generally but i'll speak for myself. if the economy turns around and stabilizes then we all know that what i said was of me and thus false and i'll not be running my mouth any more thereafter. if it does collapse as i believe it will, you will not hear me say "i told you so" either. The Lord would have certainly Vindicated what He said and His messengers. i would ask though why you'd think anyone really sent of God would respond in that manner to begin with. perhaps i'm assuming too much in assuming that it is understood that the true prophets of God don't act that way. if you were given such a word which came to pass would you respond that way? not an accusation, just questions.

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This is what is needed. In fact this is the definition. This is the word embedded deep within, this is that which good old Art Katz drove home amongst so many other things. If we cannot give the world this, despite what they may or may not do with it, then we are nothing but frauds and tragic comics presenting an offering of a cubic zirconia for the Real Diamond. This is the business we are trafficking in with this 'style' of prophesying, not to mention all of the Church proper, and that there cannot be a very long pause to consider the ramifications ... is well quite past me. It is compounding error when it is not so, this is not a favoring the odds or a perhaps and a maybe ... Isn't it strange enough when the animated prophets are so sincere and forceful and crying out at the outset and then the months and years go by and ... what? Nothing. Nothing happens and the world just goes right on by, just another gimmick, some throw away thing, a cheap plastic, fake diamond. It just makes a complete mockery of the Lord and we will say nothing to keep from offending each other.



i guess if there isn't a date stamp on it as in this case, there may well be time yet for some things to come to pass, assuming of course it is of God. if it is of God it will come to pass.the Messiah was spoken of for millenia before He came and He said He would return and millenia have passed since. if it's of God, it will come to pass, it always does...Jeremiah cried out many years before Babylon came through...perhaps we forget the Mercy and Longsuffering of God when He tarries?

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What was the effect on His hearers when Jesus said these words? Quite outlandish ... and quite specific. There doesn't seem to be any indication that anyone was expecting from then current events that this would be a possibility, it wasn't 'in the news' so to speak.



the majority of people, experts and not so expert don't think we'll even have that much of a recession let alone a sudden collapse. if and when i say we're having economic issues, most are like "huh?" and then don't believe it and go on. there are a few weirdos i have talked to who believe they have heard the same thing, we'll we're about to know for sure...i don't speculate on any of this and i know some do, some get paid to speculate. it may seem so to you and others but if i didn't believe God showed me this, i'd have said nothing and saved us all a lot of drama.

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We do not know and that is where I am continuing to have a great deal of issue with this whole matter. It is predominantly a 'newspaper theology' as it is termed, full of speculation also simultaneously and otherwise know as 'prophesying'. There can be but one answer and that answer is get it right or don't get it wrong, there is no wiggle room.



we don't know, but God knows and perhaps, or should i say i believe firmly that God has spoken concerning this to some others here and out there also. so i believe also God told me that this was the year, another brother also was shown this year. he was shown this in about 2000 or so and God said to him someone else would know of the 2007 date and that person is me. so if '07 doesn't pass with any of the things on PC3 coming to pass, there is no wiggle room for me in this and none for bro R either and we'll apologize, repent, recant and be quiet.

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Now I am about to really get myself into some trouble ... For your consideration, those of us who are convinced we are indeed hearing from the Lord in this way and uttering our utterances, has it possibly occurred to anyone that this may well be none other than satan himself? I ask it as a heart searching question and not as an accusation, I am firmly still in the camp of "I do not know".



you're in trouble now! :-P don't you make me come to Cali and find you! bro you asked if we ever considered this to be of the enemy. i have, more so than you may know/think. i've been aked and asked myself "what if this isn't God?" if it isn't, i could simply do what i'd much rather do...chill and not worry about much and be my phlegmatic self...that is a no brainer. this question however "what if it [u][i][b]is[/b][/i][/u] God i find more troubling because if it is, then i can't do what i've always done...chill. suddenly i have to do something completely different, something which if i was left to my own devices would in nowise consider coz it would bring me too much trouble. it's not been easy bearing this burden and there have been times i've just wanted to give it up and hide somewhere but something won't let me quit and i believe it's Him because He is determined to see this work done. the beginning of the year wasn't so bad but just like the start of a race, it's all good till you get close to the end, you start cramping up but you have to maintain that stride...these last few days have been something of a roller-coaster between me fussing about things i don't like about myself which i think would disqualify me from this to then conceding that God chooses as He pleases, from being unsure and being certain...from wonderings if this is a ploy of the enemy or God Himself...yet even in spite of all this, the latter always wins. i've considered if this is the enemy bro Mike, it has occured to me.

you're in the camp of "i don't know" and in about 9 days you'll know one way or another as will we all. at that point i'll either be putting this behind me or going where i never considered i'd go and understand a bit better what Paul meant when he said "eye hath not seen..."

Grace and Peace are ours in Jesus.AMEN.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2007/12/22 20:59Profile





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