| 2006/7/12 14:58|
| Re: My second post to roaringlamb|
I beg your forgiveness in advance, because I want to scream in frustration, as it seems you wish to divert this thread from where it should be headed and that is to pray that the Gospel is preached to the leadership of North Korea, and that they desire to know Jesus and ask Him to become Lord of their lives, and that the fires of revival burn brightly in what is now known as North Korea and soon will be known as simply Korea...unified and God fearing.
Do you really want to talk about John Sung?
Number one, John Sung's opposser's were numerous, were they the Christless lost of China...oh no, they were from the "church"....they said he was crazy, apostate, from the devil, they stoned him, threw him out of churches, etc etc. I have a library shelf with every book written about this prime example of a man of God.
Do you know what would happen to John Sung today if he deigned to go into North Korea and preach?
He would find himself in prison camp, one of the ones up north near the Yalu...way north, and put inside a box 4 by 6, and fed millet and sawdust.
btw, did you know that when John got baptized in the Holy Ghost at seminary in Ohio, they locked him for 193 days in a mental hospital? and that when he was UNLAWFULLY so confined, God used this time for John to read thru the Bible 40 times, each time concentrating on a single theme, love, repentance, holiness, etc.
I havent read anything from Mr. Warren nor Osteen because the Spirit has never pushed me towards this, but I await a very expensive book on ALL the writings and sermons of Hudson Taylor. I don't say that in boast, but to let you know that YOU HIJACK the onus of this thread and that is to pray that the Gospel may be brought to the leadership and the peoples of North Korea, and that when this happens that the Fire of revival course from the 38th parralel to the Yalu and Tumen rivers.
As far as how you slander Dan Kimball, why not seek a meeting and prayerfully in love, tell him how you feel that the "emerging church", which I believe you mean Vintage Faith in Santa Cruz is "just a bridge into the Roman catholic Church", instead of talking behind his back, in love bring these concerns to him, is he not your brother?
Brother, I'm glad you're a "Protestant", I'm not, I was born a Jew, I'm a child of Abraham and so are you, because you believed God when He said that Jesus is His Son, as I did. Now I'm a follower of Jesus, and brother I can tell you with all assurance that the devil loves these types of divisive conversations.
Oh, how the devil loves when people argue "religion" and labels, its his food and feast...and when people KILL one another over religion, his dark heart glows with foul joy.
In the Name of Jesus I ask you not to hijack this thread which is praying that the Gospel be brought to North Korea.....
and please brother, be wary of labels other than follower of Jesus, brother of Jesus, child of Abraham, child of God.
in Jesus' love, bartle
| 2006/7/12 15:00|
Santa Cruz California
Yes I know about Bro Sung. I also know a little bit more about Vintage Faith because I live here, and see the effects that it has on people. I do not seek to get people off track, as I am all for The Gospel of Jesus Christ to be preached in all the world. But answer me this please, what do prayer labrynths, praying to statues, having a god you can feel, touch, see etc have to do with any of this? Please come out to Santa Cruz, you can stay at my house, and we can go to Vintage Faith and you can see for yourself that it is not right. Many groups have doctrinal statements that sound wonderful, but you don't know how they truly are until you go.
Also, why don't we discuss the fact that just because something is popular or achieving great success does not mean it is right or from GOD. Jehovah's Witnesses are rapidly growing, and they study the Scriptures, so should I link up to them? or how about the Mormons they teach a gospel, so it must be right, right?
Come on, I never had any intention of bickering over this, I cannot stand to see people deceived into something wrong. What if Jesus had said, "well Judaism is okay, so no cross, no need for me to die, and I don't need to warn anyone about its pitfalls."
We know He didn't do that. Instead out of love, and genuine heartfelt concern for their souls He warned them. The same goes for me, and I appreciate your praying for me.
I end with this scripture
"Ga 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?"
I hope not, because I do love you and all those in North Korea as well.
| 2006/7/12 16:32||Profile|
| 2006/7/12 16:34||Profile|
| 2006/7/12 16:44|
San Pedro, California
Brother Bartle and all,
I have to say that in many respects I agree with you. I don't mean to have the if-you-can't-play-by-my-rules-then-I'll-take-my-marbles-and-go-home attitude, but there is something very, very wearisome about sermonindex in the last several months that I can only take for so long and then I just have to go away for awhile. It's an attitude of sprirtual superiority. It's an attitude of "I have all the truth and everyone else is going straight to hell--do not pass go, do not collect $100". Maybe many do not say this in so many words, but this is the attitude that comes across loud and clear.
Remember, it is quite possible to be right and yet still be SO wrong. If you think about it, the pharisees were right. They knew the law and followed it. They were "holy", and yet, they missed Jesus. Let us not get so caught up in being right that we miss Christ. Brothers and sisters, what if God wanted to speak to you through your Catholic neighbor, or through you r brand-new doesn't-know-a-lick-of-theology friend, or (dare I say it?) Rick Warren?! Would you be so concerned with being right that you would miss Christ? Remember, God uses imperfect vessels. We are all learning. When we get to heaven, we're going to find out everything that Rick Warren said that was wrong. We are also going to discover that much that Diane and Neil and Phebe and Krispy and (can it be?) even Greg said was wrong. But thank goodness that God sees through our imperfections to the heart underneath--I hope he finds a loving, trusting, believing heart in each one of us and not a divisive one.
"The entire law is summed up in a single command: 'Love your neighbor as yourself'". If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other." Galations 5:14-15
I remember when I had the pleasure of interacting with the underground church in China, there were some pastors from a certain large American denomination that visited. They did not introduce themselves as followers of Christ, but as "______" (part of this denomination). The Chinese believers were bewildered. They had never heard of this. To them either you were a Christian or not. They were unimpressed. Later on, they had a small festive gathering to welcome the pastors. At it they served alcohol, as is customary there (I can only speak of the city in far northern China where we were). The American pastors were incredulous and started trying to tell the Chinese they were "living in sin". I personally had not had one drop of alcohol, but I sat there at that table seething. HOW DARE THEY! The Chinese believers had endured for Christ under persecution and some even bore the evidence of their loyalty to Christ on their bodies. The American preachers may have been right (or not!), but their attitude was dead wrong and they had missed Christ...
Anyway, speaking of underground churches... My parents are here visiting, and my mother told me that some friends of hers with connections in N.Korea told her that things are worse than ever there. Please pray for our brothers and sisters in North Korea. My mom said that the Chinese are finding blood in the Yalu river often now (presumably from potential defetors being shot). By the way, an interesting window into the propaganda and deception of the N.Korean government can be found on their official website:
(They have a "e-store" there and I have to admit that I was tempted to buy a "propaganda KPA soldier poster" or "Korean People's Army Chorus Volume 29", but I'm not sure that sending my credit card number to North Korea would be wise. :-) If anyone gets up the nerve to try, then please get me a copy of the set of 5 "Bronze Kim Il Sungs" postcards, okay?" :-)
| 2006/7/12 16:59||Profile|
| dear brother roaringlamb|
in love, in due respect, you have diverted the onus of this thread which is praying that the Gospel of Christ will be preached in North Korea.
I initiated a new thread called the Emergent church....go over there, I'll be more than happy to discuss such issues.
| 2006/7/12 18:26|
| Re: dear brother roaringlamb|
Hey guys, I don't mean to further stir things up, but I just watched that 2006 Worship Conference link.
Words fail me.
I truly had no idea. It is hideous, wicked, demonic. I felt like vomiting. Absolute apostasy.
Is this RW's gospel? If so, he would be better to not say anyting in N Korea. I'm sorry, Bartle. But if this is any indication...
Dear brother, have you seen the video??
I didn't want to post this here, brother. I couldn't find that new post you said you made. Please forgive me.
In Christ, Bro. Paul
Paul Frederick West
| 2006/7/12 18:45||Profile|
Same here. My mind is not capable to find the exact words after watching this. I thought it is a joke. Then I saw the official site..it is true...
| 2006/7/12 18:58||Profile|
| Re: dear brother roaringlamb|
I can understand why you started another thread and perhaps that will be fruitfull, I do not know.
But, doesn't our brother Roaringlamb deserve to be heard also? Afterall, this thread [b]is[/b] about Rick Warren, preaching in N. Korea, even if that is not primarliy the thing you wished for us to discuss? Shouldn't he be permitted to share that concern with us within the context of the ongoing discussion?
I genuinely believe that Roaringlamb is expressing his heartfelt concern over something which he views as harmfull and dangerous to others. And does not the scripture say
Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
and remember too that love
Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth
Christopher Joel Dandrow
| 2006/7/12 19:03||Profile|