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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events :  Rick Warren to Preach in Communist North Korea

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 Re:

Quote:
I couldn't find any clear teachings on repentance, atonement, the new birth, sanctification and the self-denial of the cross...



Need I say more? I think your words suffice. He claims to preach salvation, but it is a salvation without "repentance, atonement, the new birth, sanctification and the self-denial of the cross". So in essence, he doesnt preach a Biblical salvation... he preaches a soft watered down bloodless salvation.

How is that not a false teaching?

Krispy

 2006/7/10 15:51
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

I see what you're saying, Krispy.

He preaches the Joel Osteen-type gospel. Not an accurate account of the true gospel, but rather a Jesus-the-great-social-worker-in-the-sky message. Yeah, the church is plaqued with this stuff. I hate it. I hope he gets a life-altering vision en route to Korea! In anycase, I'm not too sure these North Koreans will buy into this foolish nonsense like we have in America. They've been through too much to be bamboozled by it. The prosperity gospel seems to take hold only with the comfortably sloth and naive. Bingo North America. Christians in poorer countries like India and Africa bemoan us here in America, with all our modern luxuries yet utterly bankrupt spirituality and our stupid greedy prosperity heresies. I pray the North Koreans will discern the same if Warren attempts to spread this poison over there.

For many, this will be the first and only presentation of the gospel they'll ever hear. I hope they get the right message.

Bro. Paul


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2006/7/10 16:20Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re: the preachers motive

Hi everyone.

Dorcas, how are you?

It so happens I was reading in Joshua today and came across this

Quote:
Balaam also the son of Beor, the soothsayer, did the children of Israel slay with the sword among them that were slain by them.



this was sort of a [i]discovery[/i] for me as I had not known it or noticed it before, at least to memory.

I don't want to take away from the point you were making, but since I happened to notice this today, and this story came up, I thought maybe I could share something else from this story that might be edifying for us to consider, even for ourselves, and apart from MR. Warren, though I do think it could apply.

In thinking about this I came across a question you asked

Quote:
How could Rick Warren go wrong, if he is open so to be used?



I think here of [b]motive[/b] in connection with the story from Scripture.

Remember back [b]before[/b] the Lord [i]sent[/i] Balaam He told him, no.

Quote:
And God said unto Balaam, Thou shalt not go with them; thou shalt not curse the people: for they are blessed.



[i]Before I continue, let me digress for a moment.[/i]

For those who hand out tracts, you might have one or more questions you ask people in offering them the tract. Ray Comfort suggests asking

Quote:
have you gotten one of these?



The question implies the person is missing something, which they are, especially if they are not saved. But someone might object, asking if this is genuinely honest, to ask a question to which you already know the answer. I've thought about this myself and find precedent in the word of God - from God Himself.

For instance to Adam

Quote:
Where art thou?



or to Cain

Quote:
Where is Abel thy brother?



or to Saul of Tarsus

Quote:
...why persecutest thou me?



In our story, God even asks Balaam a question

Quote:
...What men are these with thee?



We can be sure it wasn't that God didn't know the answer! That would be absurd. So why does God ask questions?

I have grown to suspect that God asks them [i] for our sake[/i], that is, for the benefit of those who He is asking.

Perhaps then, in this case, it was though God was saying to Balaam, stop and think about this, [b] what kind of men[/b] are these before you?

And Balaam knew who they were - the king of Moab sent them.

I did a little digging with a thought in mind and found this

Quote:
Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever he be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth any of his seed unto [b]Molech[/b]; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones.



Easton's Bible dictionary says Moloch was

"the name of the national god of the Ammonites, to whom children were sacrificed by fire."

and that "this god became Chemosh among the [b]Moabites[/b]."

Even if there is no connection here, we know that Scripture does say they came

Quote:
with the rewards of divination in their hand



So Balaam got his answer. It was [b]no[/b].

But then, look at how he responds to the men sent by Balaak. First how he doesn't respond:

he doesn't say 'get out of here, how dare you ask me to curse what God has blessed!'

no, he doesn't say that

he doesn't even rebuke them or warn them!

he says
Quote:
...the Lord refuseth to give me leave to go....



And in this I think the character of this [i]prophet[/b] is revealed - I think he was a [b] prophet for hire[/b]

The inspired Apostle speaks of those who are
Quote:
exercised with covetous practices



and who follow
Quote:
the way of Balaam



Yet Balaam asks again.

Selah.

This time God tells him to go but we see that
Quote:
God's anger was kindled because he went



In the end, while it is true that blessing was pronounced upon Israel, did not the people

Quote:
commit whoredom with the daughters of Moab.



Quote:
through the counsel of Balaam



and thousands died in the plauge.

I'll leave the implications and applications for us all to consider, both in this current thread and our own lives.


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2006/7/10 18:53Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 if God can make an ass speak...

bro Greg

Quote:
Nothing would thrill me more than to know that the GOSPEL is being preached to the masses anywhere in the world. God has never failed to bring the GOSPEL wherever He has wanted it preached.However, PLEASE help me to understand! If God went to the lengths that He did to bring the world the TRUE GOSPEL (the sacrifice of His only Son), why would He now send a false prophet, with a false gospel, to evangelize a nation?



bro Greg this is a good question. We could ask even more Questions of God,

1)if He wanted to free His children from Pharoah and He had a Hebrew man as a prince of Egypt (moses) why would He take Him from the palace into the wilderness for 40 yrs first?

2)why would God use Paul (a man who was there when Stephen was stoned who persecuted Christians) to preach to Gentiles?

we could go on and on but you get the idea. i also remember of a time God sent Jeremiah to the nation of Israel and [i]told[/i] Him that His children wouldn't listen to Jeremiah. Jreremiah of course retorted "what's the point then?

it seems to me our Lord likes to use the most unqualified people for His work so that He gets the glory. Look at David, an adulterer and a murderer and yet Christ is called "the Son of David" surely God could have used a much more wholesome king to name His son after.

As for Mr Warren, i don't agree with much of what He teaches but we must remember that our Lord is not hindered by our shortcomings. God speaks through us, i have my own issues i wrestle with yet God uses me to speak sometimes, He uses you Greg with all your issues. the plan of God marches on Rick Warren false prophet or not, whether we see him as that or not, whether we agree with what the Father does or not. it is no accident rick warren is going there, God ordained it for His own glory. this may not be about evalngelizing a nation,it may be that God has 1 person there He's trying to reach and Rick Warren is who He'll use. we may not like it or agree (it seems pretty obvious to me we're averse to some degree), but if God has seen fit to do so, who can tell Him He is wrong? who knows what God is trying to do, our concern should not be "why is God using Rick warren?" our concern should be,"God what do you want me to do? we leave much undone by worrying about the next man... We have no idea what our Lord is looking to do here but if He leads let us pray for all this that His will be done to the glory of His name which is our benefit as His children. AMEN.

bro greg i've not dismissed the scriptures you posted for they are indeed valid, many people will go after false prophets etc but remember this scripture which you also posted:

Quote:
Luk 21:8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: (go ye not therefore after them. )



we should be watchful but also not neglect our responsibilities. God is not unaware of the false prophet, but let us not be distracted by him either to the point of forgetting that our God is sovereign over all and we ought to seek after Him and what we ought to do.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2006/7/10 22:54Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

sis enid

Quote:
Now for my 2 bits worth. From what I have read and heard about Rick Warren, I don't believe God will use him. Why? He would only take the glory for himself, not God. I don't like his ministry, he is a deceiver. Pray all you want for him. I only pray for those who I believe have honoured God. How has he honoured God? Go to his website and learn about his ministry and see if it isn't man-centred instead of God-centred. Is this how the first century church functioned? Read Acts 2 and compare with Warren's ministry. He is no threat to the North Koreans. Let them invite Paul Washer or Keith Daniel, then I'll pray for God to move. Like I said, that's my 2 cents worth. God bless.



let us turn this same perception/view on you and ourselves. if we reason that a man is not usable by God for any reason, let us think of our own shortcomings.

i have been a fornicator, an adulterer, a liar (i guess some of Mr warren's preaching is lies), thief, slanderer...i could go on but you get the point. yet it pleased God to come into my life and work on me and use me to preach His word to His glory. you sis enid may have been all or none of those things yet it pleased God to deal with you. if we use the same logic you used in your above post, we should pay you no mind because you yourself have sinned in some form or other; you may not have been a false prophet but you are no better, neither am i. think of Paul, moses, david etc, all these men had problems, david and moses were murderers, paul was at least an accessory to murder (stephen's stoning) and very much a hater and persecutor of Christians yet it pleased God to use such to His glory.

We may think God needs to send in Keith Daniel to Korea, evidently God doesn't agree coz Rick Warren is going. ouch! let's get over our prides,do we trust God or not? do we think we can do better than He? we oft think we can help God with our bright ideas...i think He's got it well covered don't you? we have no idea what God is going to do, but we can be sure He will see His will done. this is not to say we ought not speak out against false prophets or not be cautious but when God has determined to do something, He's seen every possible outcome (we don't have such insight) and decided to go ahead.

it is easy to think Keith Daniel or Ravenhil to be a better choice than rick warren for this mission, but then we would end up praising that man rather than God who enabled it all. we do give men all the props for a work done rather than acknowlege God, we say ravenhil was a great preacher, how about God preached many great things through Ravenhil? just a thought. in this case many of us think Rick warren totally unqualified for this. let me tell you brethren, that is the point. whatever happens in Korea afterward will be to God's glory because there will be no other way to explain it. we see rick warren as a false prophet but if a nation is brought to repentance after a false prophet goes in, then what can we say [i]but[/i] that it was the hand of God?


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2006/7/10 23:14Profile
enid
Member



Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2648
Nottingham, England

 Re:

Time will tell.

 2006/7/11 2:10Profile
IWantAnguish
Member



Joined: 2006/6/15
Posts: 343
VCU @ Richmond, VA

 Re:

"We're kind of the Linux of Christianity," Warren says.

CNN.Money is quite impressed with his abilities as a CEO.

But I would have to say God is not impressed at all.

What did Uzziah receive as his reward when he tried to touch the ark ? What happened when the jews tried to modernize the ark of God with a cart on wheels ?

What is going to happen to Rick Warren and his contemporary Christianity ? It will all undergo the test of God's holy fire, and it will all burn away.


_________________
Sam Yoon

 2006/7/11 2:40Profile









 Re:

Quote:
The prosperity gospel seems to take hold only with the comfortably sloth and naive. Bingo North America. Christians in poorer countries like India and Africa bemoan us here in America, with all our modern luxuries yet utterly bankrupt spirituality and our stupid greedy prosperity heresies



I used to think that... but if we are to believe what we see on Benny Hinns show and others on TBN (which I do not consider to be a reliable source) people like Hinn and Reinhard Bonke are meeting with much success in third world countries. Perhaps it's because when someone lives in absolute poverty the "promise" of worldly prosperity will be quite attractive. Kinda like State sponsored gambling such as the lottery... who are the majority of people who buy lottery tickets? The poor.

But like I said, I absolutely do not believe a single word that comes out of that liar Benny Hinns mouth... so far as I am concerned all of his videos of massive crusades in Africa could well be staged with a little trick photography. Kinda like on Jimmy Swaggarts show when he is preaching... the camera's are angled such that it looks like his church is packed out. However, sometimes you can catch a glimpes of the crowd and see that MAYBE 150 people packed into the first 10 rows... and the other 3/4's of the church looks like a ghost town.

Krispy

 2006/7/11 7:03









 Re: Rick Warren to Preach in Communist North Korea

Hi ChrisJD,

I'm well, thank you, and grateful for the post you put together.

Quote:
We can be sure it wasn't that God didn't know the answer! That would be absurd. So why does God ask questions?

I have grown to suspect that God asks them for our sake, that is, for the benefit of those who He is asking.

I think you're right.

I would add that even in Israel, people did not need encouragement to go after other gods. Just like us, it comes all too naturally. Now, though, we have the opportunity to get-out-of-eternal-jail through faith in Jesus Christ's life and death and resurrection.

There are not a few people on this forum who've been in churches which were being led by teachers of false doctrine, and if anything suggests God has His hand on whatever Rick Warren is going to do in N Korea, (just as He has His hand on what Satan is allowed to do), it is that a number of us broke away from false teaching to seek a relationship with God which answered [u]all[/u] our hearts' desire to be experientially saved.

I don't know if any of you have realised how powerful the word of God is? It simply takes God to be enlivening it to the hearer, for it to be totally dynamic. Even a simple sentence such as 'Jesus is alive'... if empowered by the Holy Spirit in the ears of the hearer, is totally transforming.

You know, while people are alive, they have time to change their minds.

EDIT:

IRONMAN,

Sorry I don't have more time to comment, as am resorted to the library for internet access, but thanks for 'hearing' my post and responding with assurance.

God has habit of using unlikely people, and even non-Christians, sometimes. Whatever the state of Rick Warren's faith, I think he deserves not a little honour for being willing to agree to go. May the Lord use him according to His will.

 2006/7/11 9:56
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

sis enid

Quote:
Time will tell.



time will tell indeed and the purposes of God will be fulfilled to His glory. AMEN.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2006/7/11 11:13Profile





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