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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events :  Rick Warren to Preach in Communist North Korea

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IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 if our Lord can use and ass...

brethren
in as much as i don't agree with much of what Rick Warren teaches/preaches, we must remember that the plan of God which is to glorify Himself in and through His Church marches on. He will call to repentance as many as He will and by whatever means He sees fit. the way it is is simply that in spite of ourselves, the plan of our Lord marches on somehow. it remaines to be seen how our Lord will use this because this in fact is something He has made possible for his own glory, but if out Lord can use an ass as He did with Balaam to get His message across, Rick Warren, you or myself even with all our shortcomings will be powerful tools in the Master's hands.

i pray ouf Lord's will be done in Korea. AMEN.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2006/6/29 17:12Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re: Rick Warren to Preach in Communist North Korea

Hi everyone.

Brothers...

Quote:
I know they're going to use me," Warren said, responding to a question about whether he was concerned that the invitation could be a set-up, a ruse to draw out Christians so that the government could punish them.



I think this is a serious concern. What good, or benevolent, or even benign reason could the North Koreans have for allowing this? Beloved, before I believed that this nation had any sort of change of heart concerning the preaching of the Gospel or the worship of God in Christ, I'd expect they would

Quote:
Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance



so to speak, concerning our brothers and sisters in chains for example, perhaps setting them free?

Since, according to this article, Mr. Warren says

Quote:
"So I'm going to use them."



we might all the more then pray that those who might genuinely be seeking after Christ would not fooled, and that God would reach them and feed them the Bread of Life by the hands of His [b]true wheat[/b] which he surely has hidden in even this nation's barn. And we should pray for them also, that they be not even tempted to be fed in thier wilderness by any other than Christ, the rock Who follows them.

I would humbly suggest this, anyway.


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Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2006/6/29 18:14Profile
habakkuk3
Member



Joined: 2005/10/18
Posts: 490
Virginia

 Re:

Quote:
I think this is a serious concern. What good, or benevolent, or even benign reason could the North Koreans have for allowing this?

I don't pretend to know the heart of this evil dictator but China has the Three Self Church, which is sanctioned by the government. Perhaps Dictator Kim is imitating his comrades in China?

The real movement in China is in the underground churches and I'm certain that will happen at some point in the Western world as well.


_________________
Ed Pugh

 2006/7/3 22:55Profile
mamaluk
Member



Joined: 2006/6/12
Posts: 524


 Re:


From watching others in attacking Lazarus's preaching ministry on this forum, caused me to realize first hand how ugly it is for someone to attack a brother/preacher even when one doesn't agree with his preaching style.

I am deleting my previous post in regards to 'attacking' Rick Warren's ministry,even though I totally disagree with his writings and messages, but to leave the judgment in God's Hands with them.

May God overlook that post had I offended Him with it.

mamaluk





 2006/7/4 11:59Profile
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

I thought I would post this for all to read.

"When you go in they have to loosen up on religious freedoms," Warren said. "They have to just by your presence. It's like Mandela going into a country. Automatically people start loosening up."

Suzanne Scholte, chairman of the North Korea Freedom Coalition isn't so sure.

"This is a Satanic regime," Scholte told Chad Groening of American Family Radio, "and to go in there and believe that you could actually preach freely is an illusion. It won't do anything to help the church. It will only put the true church at risk, and it will be used as a propaganda piece by the Kim Jong Il regime."

Warren said he is aware that some might misinterpret his visit as an endorsement of the North Korean regime.

"When Billy Graham went to the Soviet Union, there was a lot of criticism of: 'Well, they're using you.' And he said: 'Well, yeah, they're using me, but I'm using them too.'," Warren said.

Graham was criticized following his 1982 visit to Moscow for letting himself be used by the communists when he said he had seen no evidence of religious persecution by the Soviet government and observed that religious freedom was somewhat greater among the people than he had anticipated.

When preaching at the Yelohovski Russian Orthodox Cathedral, Graham exhorted his audience to be better members of the communist state: "God can make you love people you normally would not love. He gives you the power to be a better worker, a more loyal citizen because in Romans 13 we are told to obey the authorities."

Scholte questions what message Warren will be allowed to deliver.

"Kim Jong Il has set himself up as a god. Is he going to say, 'Kim Jong Il is not your god – God is God'?" she asked. "They are raised to believe Kim Jong Il is god and that the God we worship doesn't exist. And so, what is he going to preach?"

Since 2001, North Korea has been designated a "country of particular concern" for violations of religious freedom. Its citizens may not belong to unauthorized religious groups, and believers who proselytize or have ties to evangelical groups in China are arrested, tortured or executed, a 2005 State Department report said.

Given North Korea's history of persecution, Scholte's fear is that the government will use the crusade to identify Christian believers who will be "rounded up and sent to a political prison camp" once Warren leaves the country.


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patrick heaviside

 2006/7/8 14:35Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi Habakkuk and everyone else.

Quote:
I don't pretend to know the heart of this evil dictator but China has the Three Self Church, which is sanctioned by the government. Perhaps Dictator Kim is imitating his comrades in China?



As a sort of aside to this thread, when I saw the refrence to the Three Self Patriotic Church I remebered something I read in the February 2006 VOM newsletter and thought I'd share some of it here. No particular point to make here.

According to the article, some of the tenets of this church are:

[b]One has no ability to have faith[/b]
[b]There is no hope of salvation[/b]
[b]Athiests are in heaven[/b]

and...

[b]Socialisim, China, The Communist Party and the government must be loved/supported above all else.[/b]

those were a few they listed.




_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2006/7/8 15:53Profile
mamaluk
Member



Joined: 2006/6/12
Posts: 524


 Re:

Yeah, I heard that the Chinese govt., also removed Genesis and Revelation from Bibles, is the devil 'cunning' or what! Talk about spiritual darkness in the high places..

 2006/7/8 21:01Profile
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

The saddest part, is that people fall for it, hook, line, and sinker!!!
I also wonder why is Rick Warren the spiritual head of Rwanda now, which basically equates with head of Rwanda. Why does his P.E.A.C.E. program look just like that of the U.N.? And why did Jesus say "Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets. Lu 6:26"? or "that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God."
Simply some questions to answer.


_________________
patrick heaviside

 2006/7/8 21:37Profile
mamaluk
Member



Joined: 2006/6/12
Posts: 524


 Re:

Matthew 24:24 (kjv)

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive [i]the very elect.[/i]

Unlike in the days of Hudson Taylor, a ministry by poverty and perils. In the present time, it is often the glamor and sensationalism from America, by prosperity and media hype that draws crowds. I'm sure in time, all will come to the true light. Rick Warren will not be the first or the last false prophet if indeed he is one.

If Mr. Warren's message is a false one, the North Korean government, under the 'satanic' regime will obviously not mind. Just as in China, Satan knows what he's doing, he even arranges his own version of 'bible' for the Chinese 'churches'.

Consider this also, that the North Koreans have heard the real Gospel for years, even just from their South Korean brothers, that's why, this whole Warren thing is perhaps only going to be an exciting and sensational American celebrity show case for them, I'm sure the 15,000 souls will be sent home with a great deal of heart-warming 'hope' by Mr. Warren, whatever the kind of hope it may be.

Just mumbling my 2 cents on a Saturday evening,:)

Regardless, our God's sovereignty over all the nations will reign, please come quickly, O Lord !

mamaluk






 2006/7/8 22:36Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re: fill the seats - but why?

Was thinking about this again...

Quote:
Warren said North Korea would allow him to preach in a stadium seating 15,000, but that he could preach in a larger venue...



[b]...if he could fill the seats.[/b]

Again, the concern here about motive and what this could mean for our true brothers. Who knows what reasons they may have to attend this or expose themselves to being discovered. So I wanted to encourage us all to remmeber to pray for them.


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2006/7/8 22:48Profile





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