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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Grace!

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Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

J-bird wrote:

Quote:
Do you still sin? That makes you a sinner.


That is totaly wrong.

If you bark, does that make you a dog?

No, a dog is a dog and therefore it barks.

same as if you sin, it don't make you a sinner.

A unsaved person is a sinner therefore he sins.
Quote:
The only differnce between you and a lost person is your a SAVED sinner.



Again, wrong, we are a new creation and made alive with a a new spirit and that is why we are not sinners any more.

A lost person is dead spiritualy and that is the root cause of his being a sinner.

Quote:
If you offend the law in one area than you've offended in all areas.



[b]Romans 8:7-8[/b] [color=990000]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
[b]:8[/b] So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.[/color]
Those who walk after the spirit do not offend the law but only those who walk after the flesh.

Quote:
Have you stayed sinless since your conversion? If no than you are a SINNER guilty of breaking the WHOLE law.


Yes, I have sinned, but, [b]1John 2:1b[/b] [color=990000] And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:[/color]
[b]1Corinth 1:8[/b] [color=990000]who also will confirm [or, sustain] you* to the end, [b]blameless[/b] in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.[/color]

"I am not saying that Grace is an desereved, but that He gives us free will to depart from him, otherwise it isn't grace nor true love."

We do have a choice to depart from him. the is a freedom of our will that we do have.

May I ask how old you are?
How long have you been saved?

 2006/7/1 22:59Profile









 Re:

Are you saying that we get saved because we love Jesus? Because that would be unbiblical.

I'm 30

Been saved for about three years.
You can do a search on (My salvation experience) to find my testimony.

How old are you?

J-bird

When were you saved?

 2006/7/1 23:30
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

J-bird wrote:

Quote:
Are you saying that we get saved because we love Jesus? Because that would be unbiblical.


No, I am saying that we stay saved because we love Jesus.
That is why it is so easy to stay saved, Jesus is VERY easy to love.

I hated God before I was saved, however, I knew that I was a sinner because I could not keep Gods' Law and was by nature a child of His wrath, just as other people are.

Then I found that I could be saved from His wrath through Jesus.

So then I accepted His sacrifice that Jesus paid on the cross, along with His resurrection
and God, being rich in mercy, because of the intense love which He lavished on me, even while I was dead in transgressions, He made me alive with Christ

Think of our salvation not as a thing, but a relationship.
[b]John 17:3[/b] [color=990000]Now this is eternal life: that they shall be knowing You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You sent.[/color]
Eternal life means to know Jesus.
To know Him is to love Him.
Don't get me wrong, Salvation is [b]VERY[/b] dificult to loose, never the less, people have divorced God, left him because of suffering comes, or persecution because of the word.

[b]Matthew 13:20-21[/b] [color=990000]He who has received the seed on the rocky ground is the man who hears the Message and immediately receives it with joy.[/color]
They got saved...
[b]:21[/b] [color=990000]But he does not have root in himself, and he goes on for a time and stumbles and falls.[/color]
the only one in these parable that doesn't get saved is the stony ground.

Lets say that a man becomes saved, then stumbles and falls and through time he hardens his own haert so much that it is almot imposible for him to repent.
Then He dies in that state being turned away from Jesus, which is Eaternal Life, what do you think?
[b]Romans 6:8[/b] [color=990000]But if we died with Christ, we believe that also we shall live with Him,[/color]
But, if we die with out Christ,(because we left Him) we will not be raised with Him.

Quote:
How old are you?
When were you saved?


I am 38 and have been saved for 20 years.

 2006/7/2 0:05Profile









 Re:

I disagree with that interpretation of the parable of the sower. I'm very aware of the whole Ray Comfort teaching on this but don't agree with it. By his interpretation if I'm not doing good works or reading my bible every day like him, than I'm not really saved. That's heresy. Nowhere in the bible does it say that if I don't read my bible every day I've not got the real thing. I've even heard him say that he has'nt missed a day in 20 yrs. or however long it's been since he was saved. Well good for him but I have. So in his opinion I'm not saved.

His interpretation of the Laodecian church is also misconstrued. This is a letter to a CHURCH these people are SAVED, they've just grown dull because of wealth and materialism. He says their not saved and they'll be spued out on the day of judgement. I say their riding the fence, one foot in the church, and one foot in the world, but never the less, SAVED.

Logic, there is a fine line between legalism and liberty. I've been bound by every chain of legalism you can think of. There was a time when I thought that those who did not meet up to MY standards were not really saved. God taught me some difficult but valuable lessons about his love. His love for us is unconditional. He don't work the way we do. We think we have got things figured out than he tears our little kingdom down and shows us whos really in charge. His ways are not our ways and our ways are not his ways. We take verses out of cotext and build doctrines that hurt people and place them in bondage. They might sound good and we might get some followers to go along with these teachings but deep down the Holy Spirit is nagging at us telling us that this is not right.

I've had to be completely honest with my self about many teachings of the bible. Especially the parables. About 90% of the parables are to the Jewish nation they have nothing to do with us. I don't ever want to teach false doctrine because I know one day I'll have to answer to God for it. That makes me tremble.

J-bird

 2006/7/2 9:09
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Amen, I agree with you toaly.
J-bird wrote:

Quote:
Logic, there is a fine line between legalism and liberty.


legalism is doing anything from our own effort to obtain anything from God.

But the main point I am making is that if one turns away from God and stay out of relaition with Christ and dies in that unrepentant state, He has no Eternal life because died not knowing Jesus(John 17:3)
The word "knowing" is present active.
We need to keep knowing Him, abiding in Him.
Quote:
I disagree with that interpretation of the parable of the sower.


How do you interpret that parable?
Quote:
About 90% of the parables are to the Jewish nation they have nothing to do with us.


I can show you how all the parables aplye to us if you want.

 2006/7/2 14:55Profile
vico
Member



Joined: 2005/5/25
Posts: 258


 Re:

Quote:

J-bird wrote:
I disagree with that interpretation of the parable of the sower. I'm very aware of the whole Ray Comfort teaching on this but don't agree with it. By his interpretation if I'm not doing good works or reading my bible every day like him, than I'm not really saved. That's heresy. Nowhere in the bible does it say that if I don't read my bible every day I've not got the real thing.



No it's not if you do these things then you are saved, but if you are saved you will do these things. "Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteousness" 1 John 3:7

So how do we know those that have been made righteous through Christ? Because they are doing righteousness. by their fruit you will know them, right?

 2006/7/2 15:05Profile
n7rooivalk7n
Member



Joined: 2006/6/30
Posts: 11
South Africa

 Re:

Hi All,

I very much share JBirds views, because I have a very similar testimony of falling into legalism and then being set free of it.

Interpretation of the parable of the sower is simple according to me. All the seed that didn't fall on the good ground were people that never got saved. They only had the appearence of being saved. But ALL the seed that falls in the good ground perseveres to the end. They truely got saved.

One more thought. Here is a test for legalism. Why do you do anything for God? To be saved (stay saved, not backslide), or because you ARE saved? Think about it!

Look at what Jerhimia says:

[i][size=xx-small][font=Arial]Jer 20:9 Then I said, I will not mention Him, nor speak in His name any more. But His Word was in my heart like a burning fire shut up in my bones, and I was weary with holding in, and I could not stop[/font][/size][/i]


_________________
Johann

 2006/7/4 16:39Profile









 Re:

Any thoughts on the parable of the unforgiving servant?

A servant had a debt that he could not pay. Begged His Master for mercy. He recieved pardon for the debt that he could not pay. Yet because of his conduct after being forgivness, he was later condemned by His Master.

Did he lose salvation or never get salvation?

 2006/7/4 17:02
n7rooivalk7n
Member



Joined: 2006/6/30
Posts: 11
South Africa

 Re:

Hi Lazarus,

He never got salvation, because he had an unconverted heart. After the king took away his debt, he stopped another person in the street and demanded to be payed immediately. The bible says that those who are saved will bear fruit. He never bore any fruit. He was just glad to get off the hook, he never had Godly sorrow.

God wants to save everybody, but He can't because He is righteous. Salvation is totally and utterly from God and damnation is totally and utterly from man.

Two more thoughts. The bible says clearly that we should examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith. If we are and we still struggle with overcoming sin, it should be a motivation for us to stop sinning through God's power. If we never got saved it should be a motivation to seek salvation. How can we know if we are in the faith (saved)? Rom 8:16 says that the Spirit of God will witness with our spirit that we are saved(children of God). The confirmation comes through the Holy Spirit. The bible speaks in many places of the Spirit of God that gives life. It is the Spirit of God that gives us the rebirth. That which is born of man is carnal and dies, but that which is born of God is eternal and doesn't die.

Have a look at Rom 8, but also the whole of John and 1 John

Be blessed!


_________________
Johann

 2006/7/5 12:42Profile
habakkuk3
Member



Joined: 2005/10/18
Posts: 490
Virginia

 Re:

Interesting question Jesse,

I agree with n7rooivalk7n on this in the sense that that this man was not converted. It's a most interesting passage of scripture in Matthews 18.

26"The servant fell on his knees before him. 'Be patient with me,' he begged, 'and I will pay back everything.' 27The servant's master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.

Note that there was no real repentance. He simply said be patient with me and I'll make it up to you. In this case, the forgiveness preceded the repentance but the repentance never came. It's one of the most heartbreaking stories in the scriptures because this man chose to try and make it up to the Lord rather than simply repenting.

Had he truly repented, he would have not treated this other man the way he did. I believe this man's primary sin was not unforgiveness but pride. He really thought he could make it up to God and regardless of what it took He was going to make it up to God, even if he had to run over some poor peasant to do so. That's a heart full of pride. Don't you see Lord I'm a winner and I can pull this off... (The reason I can readily see this is that it has been me for much of my life. Praise God for repentance.)

I used to believe that to make it into the kingdom of God I had to get past the devil but am finding that I must get past myself.

Just my two cents for what its worth...


_________________
Ed Pugh

 2006/7/6 12:51Profile





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