Just something I wanted to share with all members of SI.
Something that I thought might be encouraging to those who struggle with the false doctrine of falling from grace.
When Jesus payed the ransom for our sins on the cross he was paying in advance. Right? He payed that debt before we were born or even thought of by our parents. He was also paying the debt for the saints that had already died and went to Paradise. Right? And he even payed the price for the thief who died with him.
Jesus payed for all our sins PAST, PRESENT, and FUTURE. Yes!!! even the ones that we will commit in the future and if he has already paid the debt than why would he have to pay it again.
That my friend is GRACE!!! What marvelous grace, amazing grace. Don't fear, he is able to keep you.
| 2006/6/28 17:29|
| Re: Grace!|
[u]Titus 2:11-14[/u] - "For the grace of God [b]that bringeth salvation[/b] hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, [b]in this present world;[/b] Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, [b]that[/b] he might redeem us from [b]all[/b] iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works."
[u]Jude 1:3-5[/u] - "Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should [b]earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.[/b] For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, [b]turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness[/b], and denying the only [b]Lord[/b] God, and our [b]Lord[/b] Jesus Christ. I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having [b]saved[/b] the people out of the land of Egypt, [b]afterward destroyed[/b] them that believed not."
[u]Heb 3:12[/u] "Take heed, [b]brethren,[/b] lest there be in [b]any of you[/b] an evil heart of unbelief, in [b]departing[/b] from the living God."
[u]James 5:19-20[/u] "[b]Brethren,[/b] if [i]any of you[/i] do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which [b]converteth the sinner[/b] from the error of his way shall save a soul from [b]death[/b], and shall hide a multitude of sins."
[u]Ro 11:22[/u] - "Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which [b]fell[/b], severity; but toward thee, goodness, [b]if thou continue[/b] in his goodness: [i]otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.[/i]"
[u]Php 2:12[/u] - "work out your own salvation [b]with fear[/b] and trembling."
| 2006/6/28 17:39|
None of these verses tell me I can lose my salvation. Not one of them.
| 2006/6/28 17:48|
[u]Hebrews 10:26-27[/u] - "For if [b]we[/b] sin wilfully [b]after[/b] that we have [b]received[/b] the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth [b]no more[/b] sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of [i]judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries."[/i]
the false doctrine of falling from grace.
[u]Galatians 5:4[/u] - "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are [b]fallen from grace.[/b]"
| 2006/6/28 17:58|
These are good verses, but still they do not tell me that if I sin I will be cut off from God and my soul will burn in hell. You have twisted these verses by highlighting areas that you can use to try and press your point. Anyone can copy bible verses and highlight areas that seem to go along with what they teach but this is not biblical teaching.
His grace is sufficient
| 2006/6/28 18:06|
What does FALLEN FROM GRACE mean? Does it mean you lose your salvation? or does it mean what the verse says? You've turned from the grace of God and decided to follow the LAW. Is it LEGALISM or THE LOSS OF SALVATION? :-( J-bird
| 2006/6/28 18:35|
| Re:Those who fall from grace|
I dont think this was meant to be a OSAS dispute, but I cant resist inserting a few comments:
The context of the Hebrews verses quoted is about the Israelites in the desert how they never entered the Promised Land because of unbelief. The writer uses them as a warning to the reader. These Israelites never did accept the Lord by faith. They never entered into his rest, even though they had walked in his blessings. They had Christs Spirit in their midst. They had knowledge, miracles,the fire and the cloud, blessings etc.
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace."
Even in Jesus day many walked with him, but fell away when they learned the cost. So it is with all today who taste of Gods goodness, enjoy the blessings of the fellowship, and learn of his grace but ultimately choose instead to trust in law (themselves) to be justified. They fall from grace because they remain in their unbelief even after they had the chance to have grace.
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
God does not have a plan B for all who refuse plan A (after they receive the knowledge about it). There is not another sacrifice available. (Sorry!)
There will always be many, many who are sure they are saved, but they aren't, and you can't necessarily tell for a long time. They've learned to talk the talk and walk the walk. Some day it will be apparent:
They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us. 1 Jn. 2:19
Just HOW is Gods grace sufficient?
How does Gods grace get us through day by day?
How does Gods grace keep us from falling into the sin of trusting in self and other temptations?
How does Gods grace give us hope?
| 2006/6/28 18:43||Profile|
None of these verses tell me I can lose my salvation. Not one of them.
How about this one?
[b]John 15:4[/b] [color=990000]Continue in me, and let me continue in you. Just as the branch cannot bear fruit of itself--that is, if it does not continue in the vine--so neither can you if you do not continue in me.[/color]
| 2006/6/28 19:35||Profile|
| Re: replicas|
one does not continue in me,
Logic, I think this verse supports the many references to perseverance. It also supports Jesus' parable about the seed and the sower. A lot of seed looks like it's off to a good start, but ... well, you know how it goes. Only he who perseveres to the end will be saved.
Richard Owen Roberts says it well: What happens at the beginning counts for nothing. It's what happens at the end. There are a lot who seem to be in the kingdom because they are great camilions. Some day they will say, Lord, Lord.... but.....
It's time we stop handing out cheap eternal assurance policies! It's time we stop making replicas of Christ-followers!
A dog returns to its vomit, and a sow to the mud. And why not? Without true regeneration these are still the same creatures.
Let God's grace do its job! Then you will have the authentic!
| 2006/6/28 19:58||Profile|
It's hard to get into a discussion like this without sounding calvanistic but those who are true will perservere until the end because they are Gods elect. They can't lose their salvation because God CHOSE them. The perserverence of the saints is a doctrine that is greatly misinterpreted.
Why would God chose you than have second thoughts? Makes God seem wishy washy.
| 2006/6/28 20:36|