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 Re:

grafted said

Quote:
Are we not nit picking here? Come on. It is not an extreamly deep song. But it is not a wrong song. "Show yourself stong on my behalf" is from the Psalms and is perfectly legitimate.



I have found very few people write in a forum nit picking at songs. In fact, this might be the first thread about any particular song that I am aware of. And if that be true, than there is less nit picking going on.

But I do agree with you if that is what the writer intended. Since we are all different, some thinking with their right side of the brain, and other thinking on the left side of the brain, we all see it differently.

I am happy though that all of you who have posted have balanced this out both postively and negatively, giving your reasons and even speaking for the writer in defense, which is a good thing.

I am niether for or against the writer, I do not know who she is, or what she stands for. I had a qualm with one line in the song, "you were unable to help me".

That was the only thing that I had a problem with, nothing more nothing less. Would I listen to any of the singers song in the future? Certainly!!

Karl

 2006/6/18 19:12
ZekeO
Member



Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 1014
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

 Re:

Quote:

Healingwaters wrote:
I had a qualm with one line in the song, "you were unable to help me".

Hi Karl,

there is this scripture in Matt 13:58When Jesus had finished these parables, he moved on from there. 54Coming to his hometown, he began teaching the people in their synagogue, and they were amazed. "Where did this man get this wisdom and these miraculous powers?" they asked. 55"Isn't this the carpenter's son? Isn't his mother's name Mary, and aren't his brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas? 56Aren't all his sisters with us? Where then did this man get all these things?" 57And they took offense at him.
But Jesus said to them, "Only in his hometown and in his own house is a prophet without honor."
[b]And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith.[/b]I may be dragging something out that may not even be there, but! Could this person have lived in this town? Could this be a testimony of someone who had believed the lie that he is unable to help, and notice not unwilling? Lived in the throng, moved with the crowd, this is not the messiah?

This is a knife edge kind of thing because we are dealing with Gods sovereignty on the one hand and mans apparent ability to challenge it. I think that is your beef, excuse if this obvious to some, so as some have said it may be the writers camera shot of one momment in time. I am sure someone in this world has felt the way the writer did and can relate to that experience.
This is stuff for a whole thread on its own.


_________________
Zeke Oosthuis

 2006/6/19 1:17Profile









 Re:

Grafted wrote, to which I agree:

Quote:
It suffers not from error but just from being a typical fairly shallow song seeking some personal healing or benifit, not wrong, not even inappropriate, but just not so deep.



The new shallow contemporary writing is ususally accompanied with the one or two chords loudly beat to death in the attempt to have it embraced as "anointed" worship music. Sorry, it doesn't touch me in any anyway except to INHIBIT my worship; I want to leave and sometimes have.
I for one am sick of being where the "worship team" is trying to manipulate/move me to shallow thinking of whatever it is they are trying to get me to embrace. I say shallow because of the lack of the revelation of Christ in the their music [if His name is even mentioned at all] and their manner of dress. I've seen the undershirts and spiked hair. I know of such "worshipful" experiences expressed as "gigs" by the members of the group. They don't have a [S]pirital clue and church "leadership" allows such [s]pirits to "lead" others to worship in what is supposed to be the sanctuary of God.. Go figure.
Worship music would be much different if there was a revelation of Jesus Christ, but alas and alac, there is none.
Are we indeed in the endtimes when next we'll see a pig sacrificed and we'll believe it to be ok? Its coming.

:-xrm

 2006/6/19 6:42
freedbyjc
Member



Joined: 2004/7/29
Posts: 204
Jacksonville. Florida

 Re:

It saddens me deeply to see someone so unhappy during worship. Is it the corporate worship that bothers you or the fact that they do not worship like you want them to? Are you seeking to glorify God and worship Christ or to worship your 'personal idol' of worship- a specific choice of style and methods that others do not share?

Quote:
I for one am sick of being where the "worship team" is trying to manipulate/move me to shallow thinking of whatever it is they are trying to get me to embrace.


How can you presume this? Have you spoken to them of your fears and have they told you this with their own lips? Or have you judged their hearts and their 'evil' intentions from other factors?
Quote:
I say shallow because of the lack of the revelation of Christ in the their music [if His name is even mentioned at all] and their manner of dress. I've seen the undershirts and spiked hair.


Oh! OK now I see it more clearly... its all in how they dress. So if they were sporting crew cuts and suits and floor length dresses that would change the worship? or YOUR worship?

Christ is not glorifed? Again, it appeares that you are judging the heart of the song writers, the praise team and the worship leader who is presenting the music to God in Worship to Him...in the manner and style that they, and the rest of the congregation, are accustomed to.

Who is not experiencing [or being allowed to experience] the revelation of Christ ...you? If the others who are worshipping in the church with the praise team were not expreriencing any revelation of Christ then, from personal experience, I can tell you that the praise team would not be in front of you for long.

We are not there to worship [b][i]for you, [/i][/b] we are there worshipping Christ and you can join or [as you have said you do so often say you do] leave, if it makes you feel uncomfortable.

Quote:
I know of such "worshipful" experiences expressed as "gigs" by the members of the group.


What a martyr you are! Suffering all this personal indignity for, for ... surely not the cause of Christ. Why do you continually submit to this suffering?
Quote:
They don't have a [S]pirital clue and church "leadership" allows such [s]pirits to "lead" others to worship in what is supposed to be the sanctuary of God.. Go figure.


Have you spoken to them individually about their feelings? How they feel that their offering time, talents and treasures of worship Glorifies God?

How you have told them how you feel during their worship?

Oh, because the 'leadership' allows it you will go along with the mob mentality? Have you spoken to them about your feelings? Or is that when they have 'asked you to leave' as you've expressed in other posts?

Dear one, as a member of a congregation dually serving as a Praise Team member and as an Elder, I have faced this issue on many, many occasions and I'll advise you as I have advised others in your dilemma...if you are as put upon as you are posting, I'd either do all that I could to fix all the problems where you are...specifically show them the 'errors of their ways'

OR

find a different church to worship at and get on the important part of life...worshipping God and Glorifing Him by following Christ and lifting Him to the unsaved.


_________________
bill schnippert

 2006/6/23 13:02Profile
Treasureak
Member



Joined: 2006/4/28
Posts: 8


 Re:

Your Quote:

I love most worship songs, songs that lift Christ up and some that lift the body of Christ up together with Him in heavenly places.

Agreed, But I was not focused entirely on your opinion of the lyrics but entirely on the LYRICS.

Come with me please, and let’s sing.
=========================
"I have made you too small, in my eyes
O Lord, forgive me
And I have believed in a lie
That you were unable to help me.
But now O Lord, I see my wrong
Heal my heart and show yourself strong
And in my eyes, AND with my song
O Lord, be magnified
O Lord, be magnified"
==========================


Have you ever made God too small in your eyes? Of course you have and needed to repent, truly repent from this sin of unbelief.

Have you ever taken your eyes of God, and placed them on your problems and or circumstance? Of course you have even if it was for just a one second you have, and needed to repent from this sin of unbelief.

And I have believed in a lie that you were unable to help me.
Have you ever been told that this is too big -- God can not help you?

I like songs, that speak from a true heart,(THAT) is my weakness. Yes I know you and I know what you have been through. I can see that you draw your strength from HIM. I can see your heart, and the bible says that, those who are broken and of a contrite Spirit he will not despise.

During my journey this wonderful week I was led to Isaiah (40) where it speaks about God the person of God. I was led to 1 John where it speaks about worshipping God, Yes too often we tend to have a mind frame of Worshipping Jesus, where in actuality It’s God who we should be worshipping the FATHER. It’s because of his LOVE, that his son Jesus died
on the Cross. For God so loved the World that he gave his only begotten son, but I also learned that it’s his son who will save me, and guide me. He will be mine and I will be his. It was written before the foundations of the world and it is TRUE, because it is Spirit, is it not?


During this wonderful journey, I was led to purchase a CD, let me sing,, if you will these lyrics for you from the Psalmist.

SEPARATED UNTO THE LORD

What is holiness? Many people think we become holy by the eradication of something evil within. No, we become holy by being separated unto God. In the Old Testament times, it was when a man was chosen by God to be altogether his that he was publicly anointed with oil and was then said to be “Sanctified”. Thereafter he was regarded as set apart to God. In the same manner even animals or material things – a lamb, or the gold of the temple - could be sanctified, not be the eradication of anything evil in them, but by being thus reserved, let me say that again, but by being RESERVED exclusively to the Lord. “Holiness” in the Hebrew sense meant something thus set apart, and all true holiness is holiness “to the Lord” (Exude 28:36). I gave myself over wholly to Christ: that is holiness.

Presenting myself to God implies a recognition that I am together his. This giving of myself is a defninite thing, just a definite as reckoning. There must be a day in my life when I pass out of my own hands into his, and from that day forward I belong to him and no longer to myself. (By Watchman Nee)

In my journey I realized that it is not good to be alone, and God never intended for any of us to be alone, that is why Paul quotes, do not forsake the fellowship of the saints. Do not forsake IT, because we need each other,, I need you even if I don’t speak to you, I need you and your presence alone can and does minister to me. (Your silence speaks louder then your words)

But now O Lord, I see my wrong,
Heal my Heart and Show yourself strong,
And in my eyes, AND with my song o Lord, be Magnified.

May we continue in prayer and exulting the King of kings, and the Lord of Lords, the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End.
May we continue to pray for his divine will and purpose, and may his Holy Spirit have his way, where (no flesh) absolutely (no flesh) is involved. May we honor and Treasureak our time of waiting for his WILL and his SPIRIT, Amen and Amen.


 2006/6/23 18:20Profile









 Re: Questionable song - Be magnified

Quote:
It saddens me deeply to see someone so unhappy during worship.

There are few of us, and growing in numbers.

Quote:
Dear one, as a member of a congregation dually serving as a Praise Team member and as an Elder, I have faced this issue on many, many occasions and I'll advise you as I have advised others in your dilemma...if you are as put upon as you are posting, I'd either do all that I could to fix all the problems where you are...specifically show them the 'errors of their ways'

Would you mind my asking .... is this your [i]approachable voice[/i]? Does this suggestion mean you are open, personally, to the possibility that [i]you[/i] are in error?

Quote:
worshipping God and Glorifing Him by following Christ and lifting Him to the unsaved.

I think 'lifting Him to the unsaved', and 'worshipping God and Glorifying Him', are two different activities.

This is not to say that one's whole life is not worshipful towards God, outside of gathering with other saints, but, it (following Christ and lifting Him to the unsaved) is not a substitute for worshipping Him in the Spirit, with the other believers assembled, as members of a local body.

 2006/6/23 18:30
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

We should examine every song that we sing and test it against Scripture. I remember one song that was sung at my old place of worship where part of it said "every cry, you are listening no matter what state my heart is in" You say soo. Well doesn't the book of Psalms say that if I regard iniquity in my heart, GOD will not hear my prayer?
We must be careful, because the way these songs are done now a days, they are more like mantras than anything else. The same lines over and over, and over. Then people begin to believe what they are singing as truth, and some even begin to base their theology upon it!
My point is this, even if you are a tenth of a degree off on a compass, if you go long enough you'll end up way of the mark.


_________________
patrick heaviside

 2006/6/23 19:09Profile
mamaluk
Member



Joined: 2006/6/12
Posts: 524


 Re:

Someone once said, " God has given us 150 psalms, why is it necessary for people to write their own praises?"

I like that, writing is a hard enough task for me, let alone writing songs to praise the Almighty God in an appropriate way.

nah..impossible!
mml

 2006/6/23 19:18Profile
irunbarefoot
Member



Joined: 2006/6/15
Posts: 35


 Re:

Quote:
writing is a hard enough task for me, let alone writing songs to praise the Almighty God in an appropriate way.



I agree. I thought I'd comment about something in the same vein as this discussion.

How many church worship songs do you hear people crying out for more more more? "...More love more power..." Or songs about being thirsty that are sung in many churches every Sunday. It seems their thirst is still unquenched. But didn't Jesus say (Jn 4:13-14) whoever drinks his living water will never thirst again?

Of course I think we should always be pressing into Jesus more, and asking him to give us renewing desires for him, but sometimes I fear that the church is offering an undercurrent message with these songs saying: "You can't ever really be as close to God, you need more."

Someone once said: "The Jesus people in the 70s were overfilled with songs of excitement from knowing Jesus, but today's young "cutting edge" worshippers are constantly singing songs about being thirsty and hungry.

What do you guys think about that?

-Sean
____________
www.SeanDietrich.com
"All my music is free for download."

 2006/6/24 8:48Profile
mamaluk
Member



Joined: 2006/6/12
Posts: 524


 Re:

Sean,

Most songs written these days seem to be more self-gratifying than CHRIST-agrandizing. They are flesh entertaining more so than GOD honoring.

In some part of the world (I rather not mention which part), women write songs to 'praise' this 'jesus' ( I'm not sure that would be the same as our LORD JESUS), treating 'him' as their earthly lover, quite vulgar and nausiating if you ask me.

I have no problem with songs written to depict 'stories' occured in the bible theatrically , so long as they keep the reverence to GOD in tact, or leave the Deity unscathed. It's like, watching someone playing Moses is entirely different to watching someone playing the so-called 'jesus'. The former would be a play while the latter, to me, a blasphemy.

hm, I think I'm digressing, what are we talking about?

still working on writing better, thanks
:) mml
btw, Sean, your talent and your testimony are quite unique, please continue to developing it further to HIS glory with all reverence.

 2006/6/24 9:16Profile





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