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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi Killed in Bombing Raid

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IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 wages of sin

brethren
i guess ultimately we are all subject to death because we have sinned in one way or another so whether death comes at the hand of a man (whether we're killed or not) or something else entirely, we will all likely die at some point. However because we are of the True Faith, death is the beginning of something new and even better. i hope that at the end of the day we reazlize that the Far Country which we are called to is infinately better than anything the world has to offer. i for one can't wait to get there, just have to finish my work here first, then i'm out like a light!

homeward bound!


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2006/6/11 14:04Profile
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re: wages of sin

It is interesting as i have participated in this thread, and watched it go this way and that way, it seems brethren we have forgotten one chief lesson.
"death to self"
You know it's funny, because I have views that do contrast with some on this topic(war etc.) but after I posted the other day, it was as if the Spirit reminded me that those are my views, my understanding of things. But the important unchanging Truth we are all bound together by is CHRIST Himself!! Not conspiracy theories, or patriotism. Not pro-this or anti-that. Instead brethren it seems this topic is dividing along lines that are not essential.
Oh I am guilty, and I ask you all to forgive me.
Let us labour to keep unity.
I remember once being challenged by this statement "you can tell a man's spiritual maturity by how he reacts when you touch his theology, views, etc."
Brethren I lay down any stones, and ask that we would seek HIM who holds all things.
Blessings to you all in Christ"s name


_________________
patrick heaviside

 2006/6/11 14:31Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

bro Stever

Quote:
How do I know that? Because we have been attacked by Militant Islam that wants to kill all of the Jews and Christians (Jews 1st, then the Christians, unless we convert to Islam), and then they want to kill all of the Gentiles in the rest of the world (unless they convert to Islam). God does not have to tell anyone if they should be part of this war or not. The common sense that he gave us tells us that!



perhaps we ought to seriously consider the issue of the Lord judging us using millitant islam for our own transgressions and/or reluctance to deal with islam as we should, by spreading the gospel. if 9/11 was judgment (the Lord has used heathens to chastize the Jews before and i don' think we're exempt from that as Christians) and we didn't call for repentance then this war might be a bad idea, nonetheless it would not be were it not God's will. in listening to Josef Tson's sermons yesterday when he spoke of how God raised up Khomeni and Bin-laden to get us to focus on spreading the gospel there, that made sense to me. if i'm a fool, Lord help me!

if we say that 9/11 was simply a tragedy which shouldn't have happened, or a thing which caught God by surprise,we are faced with equating that with a God who is not in control. if we view it as judgement, then we have to repent for whatever we are being judged for and do right.

there is so much to consider...


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2006/6/11 14:51Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3206
Texas

 Re:

Quote:

Stever wrote:
Can you see the difference here, or, maybe you just don't want to see the difference?



I think that remark was uncalled for "yes" I do want to see the difference! do you always say that to folks just because they don't understand something you say? When you or anyone makes remarks like that they tend to lose their creditability with me because that is "not" very Christ like, remember some folks in this world are not as smart as others and we need to be helped along in a gentle "Christ Like" manner.


_________________
Mr. Bill

 2006/6/11 16:21Profile









 Re:

IRONMAN, I think that we are from different ages. You continue to be intent on "Spirualizing" this issue.

At this moment in history, at this dark time in history, with Sodom and Gomorah alive and well everywhere, you want to take this issue of serving in the military and put it under the covers, again.

Feel free to go wherever you want to go on this issue. Wherever you lead it, I am sure that it is not going anywhere that I can be part of. Sort of like a big circle, that goes back to Spirtualizing our walk.



God bless,

Stever ;-)
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Quote:

IRONMAN wrote:
bro Stever
Quote:
How do I know that? Because we have been attacked by Militant Islam that wants to kill all of the Jews and Christians (Jews 1st, then the Christians, unless we convert to Islam), and then they want to kill all of the Gentiles in the rest of the world (unless they convert to Islam). God does not have to tell anyone if they should be part of this war or not. The common sense that he gave us tells us that!



perhaps we ought to seriously consider the issue of the Lord judging us using millitant islam for our own transgressions and/or reluctance to deal with islam as we should, by spreading the gospel. if 9/11 was judgment (the Lord has used heathens to chastize the Jews before and i don' think we're exempt from that as Christians) and we didn't call for repentance then this war might be a bad idea, nonetheless it would not be were it not God's will. in listening to Josef Tson's sermons yesterday when he spoke of how God raised up Khomeni and Bin-laden to get us to focus on spreading the gospel there, that made sense to me. if i'm a fool, Lord help me!

if we say that 9/11 was simply a tragedy which shouldn't have happened, or a thing which caught God by surprise,we are faced with equating that with a God who is not in control. if we view it as judgement, then we have to repent for whatever we are being judged for and do right.

there is so much to consider...

 2006/6/11 16:31
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

I wonder if we could just put this to bed already as it is not doing any good for us spiritually!
2Ti 2:23 Have nothing to do with stupid, senseless controversies; you know that they breed quarrels. RSV
Eph 4:2 ¶ With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; Eph 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
Eph 4:17 ¶ This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
Eph 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
Eph 4:31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:Eph 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
[b]Eph 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.[/b]
Please don't get me wrong discussion is good, difference is good, but not over unessentials, and not when it hurts parts of the body.


_________________
patrick heaviside

 2006/6/11 16:40Profile









 Re:

Sorry, Bill. I really thought you were playing around with me.

If I hurt your feelings, I do apologize.

It just seems that today, in 2006 we have so many Brothers and Sisters in the Lord that are pacifists, and would rather run away than to actually serve their country. They would rather "Spiritualize" everything, and that is what is so very sad.

Again, if I hurt you it was not intentional.

God bless,

Stever :-)

Quote:

MrBillPro wrote:
Quote:

Stever wrote:
Can you see the difference here, or, maybe you just don't want to see the difference?



I think that remark was uncalled for "yes" I do want to see the difference! do you always say that to folks just because they don't understand something you say? When you or anyone makes remarks like that they tend to lose their creditability with me because that is "not" very Christ like, remember some folks in this world are not as smart as others and we need to be helped along in a gentle "Christ Like" manner.

 2006/6/11 18:16
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 so dizzy...

bro Stever
well bro we're from different times and i think it best to leave this alone, at the end of the day the Lord will have His way and He will be right. we can agree on that.i feel strongly about where i stand as you do so we'll leave it at that. bro if i have caused you to stumble in any way, please forgive me.

love you bro


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2006/6/11 19:16Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: thoughts

1Why are the nations in an uproar
And the peoples devising a vain thing?
2The kings of the earth take their stand
And the rulers take counsel together
Against the LORD and against His
Anointed, saying,
3"Let us tear their fetters apart
And cast away their cords from us!"

King David viewed war as nations fighting against the Anointed One – that is, Christ. In other words, war is an indication of nations trying to save themselves, trying to break free and make kingdoms for themselves. War is an indication of nations taking matters into their own hands rather than cry out to God for his mercy and redemption. War, then is an outcome of sin.

Quote:
What ended Hitlers attempt to exterminate the Jews? War.
What ended the systamtic murder of thousands of people in Iraq by Saddam? War


This sounds like a humanist’s conclusion. Was it the might of man that won those wars? Where was God in it all? What about intercessors: ex, Rees Howells What about the miracles?


Quote:
have the fortitude and the courage to give his life for his country and his progeny.


No where does it say in scripture that we are to give our life to our nation. We are to surrender it to God. I do not believe we can equate a nation with God. Nations come and go, but God’s kingdom lasts forever.


Quote:
"See that no one repays another with evil for evil, but always seek after that which is good for one another and for all people." (1 Thess 5:15) Individual Christians should show Christ's love to those who personally wrong them. But this does not mean that if someone physically threatens us we should not fight back. Nor does it imply that we shouldn't use physical force to aid another person being threatened.


This seems like a contradiction.
Quote:
In such situations it would be a greater sin to stand by and do nothing that to help a person who is in danger.



“Help? Is there no better way to help someone than to exterminate the threat? What about crying out to God rather than take vengeance in your own hands? Can he not perform miracles? Has he not done so countless times? Think of all those incredible missionary accounts? I think of a Canadian pastor who once saw a woman about to be murdered. He ran up and stood in front of her and said to the evil men. “Shoot me, not her”. And they all dropped their guns. He was willing to die.

Quote:
Evil is evil, and it must be stamped out for our children and grandchildren.


Seeking to guarantee a safe place for our children may be an idolatrous dream. But, yet, we can seek God with all our hearts, and perhaps he will be merciful. I see no way to stamp out evil other than through Christ – His Anointed One – beginning with ourselves. And he has given us weapons that are guaranteed to work: Ex “the shield of faith with which we can extinguish the flaming arrows of the evil one.” That is amazing - even faith as small as a mustard seed can move mountains. Think what would happen if thousands have faith in our Lord.

Can I suggest that the desire to take vengeance is an indication of a lack of faith in our sovereign God? And without faith, man takes matters into his own hands?

Quote:
the Bible makes a distinction between individual moral responsibility and governmental responsibility.

Yes, true: “Give to Caesar what is Caesar and to God what is God’s”. “For we are strangers and aliens here….” I owe Caesar my taxes, my respect, revenue, honor… and my love.” From what I can see in Scripture I do not owe him my life. That belongs to Christ and his kingdom. The best gift I can give my country is the Gospel – through my life, as a living epistle. That includes my prayers, my faith in God, and my total surrender to God – even if it costs me my life. The life Christ calls us to is not a passive religion that sits back and lets evil rule. We are warriors who fight evil by standing firm in the Lord.

Quote:
perhaps we ought to seriously consider the issue of the Lord judging us using millitant islam for our own transgressions and/or reluctance to deal with islam as we should, by spreading the gospel.


Just suppose we took this statement to be true, that God is judging the West. Then our way of dealing with the problem would look different, wouldn’t it. We would turn to God and admit our sins and repent. And if we did, then, might it not be possible that God himself could subdue the enemy? Or does he not work that way in this day and age? ………….Something to think about…


It looks like our views in these matters has more to do with our understanding of God than anything – and especially His Anointed One (Ps. 2:2)
Diane


_________________
Diane

 2006/6/11 22:05Profile









 Re:

Stevers response to Roadsign:

To summarize: God has nothing to do with Governments. God had nothing to do with Ancient Iraq conquering Israel. God had nothing to do with the Meads and Persians conquering Iraq. God had nothing to do with Greece (Alexander the Great) conquering the Meads and the Persians. God had nothing to do with Rome conquering Greece, thus setting up the conditions for Christ to be crucified.

God did not need David to use the sling to kill the giant Goliath. David took 3 stones to do the job-because Goliath had two brothers, but once David killed Goliath the other two never came after him.

I guess God did not even need David because He could have just done it himself. David could have prayed and God would have zapped him.

All we have to do is pray, and God does all the work.

How about Romans Chapter 13, what shall we do with it?

How about the Book of Esther? Should we forget it's message of God working with man (woman) to fulfill His purpose?

Esther 4:12-17
10. Again Esther spake unto Hatach, and gave him commandment unto Mordecai; 11. All the king's servants, and the people of the king's provinces, do know, that whosoever, whether man or woman, shall come unto the king into the inner court, who is not called, there is one law of his to put him to death, except such to whom the king shall hold out the golden sceptre, that he may live: but I have not been called to come in unto the king these thirty days.
12. And they told to Mordecai Esther's words.
13. Then Mordecai commanded to answer Esther, Think not with thyself that thou shalt escape in the king's house, more than all the Jews.
14. For if thou altogether holdest thy peace at this time, then shall there enlargement and deliverance arise to the Jews from another place; but thou and thy father's house shall be destroyed: and who knoweth whether thou art come to the kingdom for such a time as this?
15. Then Esther bade them return Mordecai this answer, 16. Go, gather together all the Jews that are present in Shushan, and fast ye for me, and neither eat nor drink three days, night or day: I also and my maidens will fast likewise; and so will I go in unto the king, which is not according to the law: and if I perish, I perish.
17. So Mordecai went his way, and did according to all that Esther had commanded him.

On the third day, Esther went into the King, risking her life in the process. The result, the Jews were saved and Haman was hung on the Gallows he had prepared for Mordacai!

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

The Bible tells us that He works through man, and uses man for his purposes.


God has established nations and individuals for His purpose. In the New Testament book of Acts, chapter 17, verses 26 and 27, we read, "...He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation, that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;..."

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
The Bible says God intervenes in the lives of Nations and men.

God intervenes in the lives of both nations and individuals because He cares for them and has a purpose for them. Regarding nations, he promises to bless those who follow Him and curse those who do not (see Deut. chapters 29 and 30 in the Old Testament).

He does this because He has revealed Himself as a personal God, not a vague "force", or a god who inhabits all living things, which would make him different in all beings. In fact, He has a name. Several, actually; the most common being "Yahweh". Somewhat like us when we name our pets, He has even named the stars. We read in the Old Testament book of Isaiah, chapter 40, verse 26: "Lift up your eyes on high and see who has created these stars, the One who leads forth their host by number, He calls them all by name;..."

Being thus a personal being, He has a specific personality. He has emotions, a will, an intelligence, and standards for right and wrong. While He exists independently of man, He has made man in His image, as the being He treasures most. This infinite God from eternity past also actually loves this finite, fickle, creation of man. This is really a pretty staggering thought.

We read this in Psalm 8: 3 -- "When I consider Your heavens, the work of Your fingers, the moon and the stars, which You have ordained; what is man that You take thought of him, and the son of man that You care for him?'"

There is no support in the Bible for the existence of extra-terrestrials. Hebrews 2: 7,8 say: "You have made him for a little while lower than the angels; You have crowned him with glory and honor, and have appointed him over the works of Your hands; You have put all things in subjection under His feet." In the New Testament we see that God sent His Son for a vital purpose, one dear to His heart, the redemption of mankind. Jesus wasn't sent to die for the forgiveness of sins for animals or space aliens.

As part of His intervention in the course of nations, He raises up rulers and disposes of them at will. For example, in the Old Testament book of Jeremiah 27: 6, 7 we read "Now I have given all these lands into the hand of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, My servant, and I have given him also the wild animals of the field to serve him. All the nations shall serve him and his son and his grandson until the time of his own land comes; then many nations and great kings will make him their servant." Nebuchadnezzar was a heathen king, not initially a believer in Yahweh, but was literally putty in the hands of God. Many other examples of God intervening in the course of nations can be found in the Bible.

He establishes nations and individuals for His purpose. In the New Testament book of Acts, chapter 17, verses 26 and 27, we read, "...He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation, that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;..."

A logical question to ask would be, are these stories really true? Do we have any proof that these people of long ago existed? There are many examples of the historical reliability of the Bible by archaeology. Nelson Glueck, a Jewish archaeologist, wrote in his book Rivers in the Desert; History of the Negev, Jewish Publications Society of America, 1969, "It may be stated categorically that no archaeological discovery has ever controverted a biblical reference." Just a very few of the ways archaeology has confirmed biblical accounts of rulers, nations, and cities have been the excavation of the Elba tablets in Syria in 1964, confirming the existence of Sodom and Gomorrah in Genesis; and Publius, a ruler of Malta (we read about him in the book of Acts, chapter 28) which we see confirmed in excavations as reported by F. F. Bruce, "Archaeological Confirmation of the New Testament", from Revelation and the Bible, Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1969.

While this will not prove to all people that God does intervene in the courses of nations, we have good reason to believe that the nations, cities, and individuals cited in the Bible did exist. Indeed, history backs up the Bible more than any book of ancient literature. Finally, simply look at how nations have fared according to how they have denied or followed God. The basic history of nations will show if they have been blessed or cursed according to how God says He will deal with them.

For example, which nations have produced the most important inventions, and progress in science and medicine? Where did penicillin, anesthetics, organ transplants, the telegraph, electric lights, microwave ovens, radio, computers, telephones, trains, airplanes, weather satellites and many other advances come from? Christian nations that obeyed the God of the Christian Bible!

There are countless cases of God intervening in the lives of individuals in the Bible. In fact, He knows us and has a plan for our lives before we are born. In Psalm 139:16 we read, "Your eyes have seen my unformed substance; and in Your book were all written the days that were ordained for me, when as yet there was not one of them." That passage also tells us that human life begins in the womb.
XXXXXXXXXXXXX

How do we ever "step out in faith", after we have received the Word from God, if we expect that God will do all of the work?

What about America becoming a Nation? Did God have anything to do with that? How many men lost their lives bringing this about? God uses man for his purposes, and God uses Nations- he builds them up and tears them down.

How about World War II? Did God have anything to do with the outcome of that war?


According to the prophecies of
Daniel, one more Nation will arise during the Tribulation that will rule the earth one last time. A nation of Iron and Clay. The ruler of that Nation? Anti-christ.


God bless,

Stever :-D

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


Quote:

roadsign wrote:
1Why are the nations in an uproar
And the peoples devising a vain thing?
2The kings of the earth take their stand
And the rulers take counsel together
Against the LORD and against His
Anointed, saying,
3"Let us tear their fetters apart
And cast away their cords from us!"

[Long post snipped]

 2006/6/12 10:34





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