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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi Killed in Bombing Raid

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IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

brethren

Quote:
I know that some beloved brethren may not believe that they could ever have sunk down to the level of this man who was killed but I am becoming more and more convinced that this is so, not because of any virtue in our souls, but rather because of the providential care of them by our Father.



this is most sobering. we are how we are by the grace of God and His mercy. let us not ever for get this lest we become conceited and begin to see salvation as a right rather than a priviledge extended to us undeservedly so by a merciful God.

Lord bring us low and shatter our pride. AMEN.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2006/6/8 18:30Profile
letsgetbusy
Member



Joined: 2004/9/28
Posts: 957
Cleveland, Georgia

 Re: Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi Killed in Bombing Raid

Haven't read all the posts, and I could tell from the first few where it was going. Two Bible verses:

Luke 22:38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

Romans 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.


_________________
Hal Bachman

 2006/6/8 20:08Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Brother Ironman, this is a deep well! I pray we could all drink in more brother; I sure would like more.

Quote:
that Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.



Is it not this love which has enabled our fathers through the centuries to face the lions and the fires of this evil world? Of course they did this by faith but doesn't the scripture say that faith..

Quote:
worketh by love



Wouldn't this love be a nourishiment of our souls?

Quote:
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love



Quote:
This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.



and by it would we not be

Quote:
more than conquerors through him that loved us.



Quote:
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.



I for one want more of it. Is this not true riches?


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2006/6/8 20:20Profile
wyattearp
Member



Joined: 2006/1/28
Posts: 48


 Re:

KrispyKrittr
Here in the west we'd of strung him up
Wyatt

 2006/6/8 22:40Profile









 Re: Abu Musab al-Zarqawi

Stever posts:

I wonder if today, in this politically correct, effete society that we presently have in America that if we had to fight the Revolutionary War all over again today------if today's Christian would have the fortitude and the courage to give his life for his country and his progeny.

We are in a world battle at this moment. Evil is evil, and it must be stamped out for our children and grandchildren.

Is there any sentiment on this Christian site that can match early America? The Pastors are the ones that preached the truth from their pulpits. The Pastors are the ones that spread the news about the British atrocities on the Americans living in the colonies (all of the Newspapers were owned by the Crown). The Pastors were the ones that led the cry to battle over and over again. The Church (that's us) followed them into battle. Where are we today?

Where are these men of principle, and integrity, and understanding, and guts with the ability to tell the difference between good and evil? Where are they at this time in history when we need them so badly?

Todays Church reminds me of the Church at Laodicea, which was neither hot nor cold, and Christ is going to spit us out of his mouth:

Rev 3:14-22
"14. And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; these things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; 15. I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 16. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. 17. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: 18. I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. 19. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
20. Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. 21. To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. 22. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches."

[b][color=CC3300]Laodicea[/color][/b]---This is where we are today, in regards to Church History, as well as world history and our timeline in regards to end-time events. We are neither cold nor hot, and willing to compromise, and willing to hide behind anything and everything to not have to identify evil as evil, and good as good.

I pray that God will help us, and I pray that God will help America.

God bless,

Stever :-D


 2006/6/8 23:11
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 take a text bro Chris and let the Lord teach us through you!

bro Chris
i knew from the moment the Lord rolled me by this thread He has something to show me. the thing is once the Lord shows you something either you conform (which is hard because it requires further death to self) or stay put (then you're liable before God and subject to whatever consequences come from disobedience) it is a frightful thing to mess around and let the Lord reveal something to you...

the gravity of the issue of the Love of God encompasses all. perhaps in reading the scriptures we've assumed the love we had in ourselves was sufficient or that this was the love which was spoken of? either way that love doesn't cut it, we need God's Love. oh to know the Love of God! what is the depth, breadth and length of it? dare we go as deep, as wide as far? is that beyond where we would go with God?

Quote:
Is it not this love which has enabled our fathers through the centuries to face the lions and the fires of this evil world? Of course they did this by faith but doesn't the scripture say that faith..



that seems to me a very deep, wide and long love to me which passes all understanding. oh the love of God is a most powerful thing! if it can redeem men from their sins and reconcile them to God, surely there is nothing that can't be acomplished in this Love for we are indeed more than conquerers through He that Loved us.

Oh my Lord what shall be do?!?!


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2006/6/8 23:31Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

bro Stever

Quote:
I wonder if today, in this politically correct, effete society that we presently have in America that if we had to fight the Revolutionary War all over again today------if today's Christian would have the fortitude and the courage to give his life for his country and his progeny.



this is a good question. would we have what it takes but since it is hypothetical (we're not in that situation) i'm unsure it can be answered accurately. however do we have what it takes to lay down everything for the cause of the Glory of God? This is the true essence of our existence as Christians, to shine forth God's glory into a dark world. the cost of such is terrible, everything. we have to ask ourselves this question. how far would we go with God and for God, how much would we give up?

Quote:
Todays Church reminds me of the Church at Laodicea, which was neither hot nor cold, and Christ is going to spit us out of his mouth:



AMEN!

Quote:
Laodicea---This is where we are today, in regards to Church History, as well as world history and our timeline in regards to end-time events. We are neither cold nor hot, and willing to compromise, and willing to hide behind anything and everything to not have to identify evil as evil, and good as good.



indeed and we should also direct this need to identify good and evil, love one and hate the other inward as well as outward lest we see only the evil without and neglect the evil within. that would be a terrible folly just as the opposite would be.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2006/6/8 23:42Profile









 Re:

bro Stever
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I wonder if today, in this politically correct, effete society that we presently have in America that if we had to fight the Revolutionary War all over again today------if today's Christian would have the fortitude and the courage to give his life for his country and his progeny.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IRONMAN REPLIED:

this is a good question. would we have what it takes but since it is hypothetical (we're not in that situation) i'm unsure it can be answered accurately. however do we have what it takes to lay down everything for the cause of the Glory of God? This is the true essence of our existence as Christians, to shine forth God's glory into a dark world. the cost of such is terrible, everything. we have to ask ourselves this question. how far would we go with God and for God, how much would we give up?

XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Stever responds to IRONMAN:

So, it would by my understanding from what you have said above that you do not see the current global war being fought by militant Islam, over much of the globe, as well as in your own country, as equal to the magnitude of Revolutionary War?

What is your insight and understanding of the gravity of what is taking place in regards to this mis-named "War on Terror"?

God bless,

Stever :-D


 2006/6/8 23:53
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

bro Stever

Quote:
So, it would by my understanding from what you have said above that you do not see the current global war being fought by militant Islam, over much of the globe, as well as in your own country, as equal to the magnitude of Revolutionary War?
What is your insight and understanding of the gravity of what is taking place in regards to this mis-named "War on Terror"?



i'm not sure there is a lot in common between this current war on terror and the revolutionary war. then again i'm a man born in this country and raised in ZImbabwe so i've always considered ZImbabwe home. so if mean my country as being Zimbabwe, i'm unsure militant islam has anything to gain from causing trouble there... yet now that the Lord has found me, my home is the Far Country and that is my primary concern and as far as i know militant islam has no sway there. i guess i don't see it that way but perhaps you could give some insight on why you may think the war on terror and the revolutionary war may be similar or of equal gravity?

my insight as far as the gravity of this war is this (if this can be called insight)to me it is evidently a serious issue, it has required the use of military force, death of soldiers and a bunch of money so that makes it a big deal. but for me an even [i]bigger[/i] deal (if there can be such a thing) is the Glory of God and the primacy of this very thing in the life of the Christian. Bro Stever, you asked if we would be willing to give lives for country and progeny right? from your response to my question could i then infer that you think to give up all for God is not a thing as important as country and progeny? if i am a fool then let me be a fool untill the Lord straightens me out. but is the cause of the Glory of God not a thing of even greater significance than the war on terror? This is how i feel and this is my concern. We're quick to lay it down for what is temporal (no doubt there is provision for this in God's big plan) but it seems less so for God. We're not willing to give up what we feel are rights if called upon by the Lord. yet Christ calls us to hate our lives, families and love Him first (if we don't we're unworthy of Him) and to lose our lives for His sake that we may find them. We're not willing to go to the cross and die (give up our lives) to be raised up by the Hand of GOd (finding our lives in Him). Brethren the Glory of God is our all in all and everything we do should spring forth from the desire to bring God glory. Anything less than that doesn't cut it.

the war on terror is a big deal, but as far as i'm concerned God knows all and sees all and the thing i'm to focus my whole attention on is His glory and everything else will spring forth from that. what does Christ tell us? seek ye first the kingdom of GOd and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added unto you.this says to me if we put God first, God will become all and we won't have to worry about anything else because ALL these things will be added unto us. another question which we need to address is what if what happened on 9/11 was judgement? the Lord has used peoples from outside israel to come through and demolish them as retribution for transgression. What if the Lord is dealing with us similarly for our own transgressions? what should we do? if we are guilty before the Lord and He judges us should we not repent? it seems few people are willing to entertain that thought, perhaps coz it means we have to closely examine ourselves and confess our sins and repent? bro Art Katz spoke on the 9/11 tragedy and said something to the effect of, the church which refuses to entertain the possibility of this being judgement is one which has lost it's savour. he has spoken of the holocaust as a judgment on the jewish peoples for their own idolatries and transgressions. what if he is right on both counts? ought we not give serious prayerful consideration to these issues?

it seems we are willing to sacrifice for country and children but i ask again, what about sacrificing for God? are we willing to go as far if not even further for God since the latter is by far a more important issue?

brethren these are difficult things to wrestle with. but let us seek the Lord in all dilligence lest we are heading down the wrong road and continue when we should back it up and change routes.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2006/6/9 12:59Profile









 Re:

Dear Ironman: This is in response to your most recent post. What I see in the Church body today is a form of effite Christianity. One of the reasons I compared the war that we are presently involved in with militant Islam with the Revolutionary war, is that Christians were deeply involved in the war, not with the pen, but with the gun and the bayonette.

This is an Article by Scott Lively that addresses this issue-Masculine Christianity:



Masculine Christianity
by Scott Lively

Scripture teaches in Genesis that when God created man in His image, He created us male and
female. The implication is that God’s character spans the full spectrum of masculine and feminine qualities.

This attribute is also revealed in the person of Jesus, born as a male, but manifesting both masculinity and femininity in His actions. When exhibiting feminine qualities, Jesus was more nurturing and relationship-oriented than any woman. When exhibiting masculinity, Jesus was more forceful and results-oriented than
any man.

Unfortunately, the modern American church, along with the majority of its leaders, has rejected
masculinity in favor of an effeminate Christianity. Too many (though by no means all) of today’s pastors,deacons and elders shrink timidly from the challenge of the world, more interested in decorating the interior of their church buildings THAN IN DOING CULTURAL AND POLITICAL BATTLE WITH THE ENEMIES OF GOD.
Ravening lions rage unchecked throughout the land, while Church leaders hold potlucks and retreats.

Where is the masculine Jesus of the Bible in the life of today’s church? The Jesus who threw
down the tables of the moneychangers and drove them out of the temple with a whip? The Jesus who faced down and tamed the Gerasene demoniac? The Jesus who, to their faces, excoriated the cultural and political leaders of the day as a “brood of vipers,” and “whitewashed sepulchers full of dead men’s bones”? THIS MASCULINE JESUS HAS BEEN EJECTED FROM THE AMERICAN CHURCH. In His place is a FALSE and EMASCULATED CHRIST,
as submissive and fearful of controversy as the men who now lead His flock.

Brethren, this is not an attack on femininity. If anything, the church should be commended for its appreciation for and fulfillment of
the feminine aspects of its role. Such vital relationship-centered ministries as feeding the hungry, clothing the naked and soothing the broken-hearted are prospering today. These ministries are very much a reflection of the feminine side of Christ’s complete personality. Instead, this is vigorous rebuke to both women and men within the church who reject the
masculine side of Christianity and have thus abandoned those outside our “church families” to fend for themselves against the forces of evil in the world. This is a rebuke to male church leaders, who channel their masculine competitiveness into sporting contests in church gymnasiums instead of contending for
influence over the community outside the church walls.

This is a rebuke to those pastors’ wives who keep their shepherd husbands safely close to the flock when they should be sometimes out hunting the bears and wolves.

Masculine Christianity fights to CHAMPION WHAT IS RIGHT AND TO DEFEAT EVIL. It is the APPLIED FORCE FOR GOOD AGAINST WHICH THE GATES OF HELL CANNOT PREVAIL. It is an EMBODIMENT OF THE SPIRIT OF CONQUEST IN WHICH THE GREAT COMMISSION WAS GIVEN. It is the unyielding determination to prevail against all odds and at any
cost to achieve a righteous goal -- even unto death on a cross. Masculine Christianity is the engine of revival: prophetic, expansionist, uncompromising.

In Biblical history, the greatest heroes of the faith exemplified masculine Christianity. Abraham did not sit idly by when his brother Lot was captured by the four kings. He armed his servants and went out to rescue him by force. Moses faced down Pharoah in a series of aggressive confrontations. David fearlessly
challenged and defeated Goliath and then cut off his head as a trophy of battle. God blessed these righteous men and backed their righteous deeds with His power.

Josiah is honored in scripture as one of the most righteous of all the kings for banishing the “perverted persons” from the land and destroying the foreign idols. Joshua and Caleb were the only men of their generation allowed to enter the promised land because, out of all the Israelite spies sent into Canaan,they alone called for immediate invasion of Canaan when the others backed away out of fear. John the
Baptist, who boldly and publicly rebuked Herod for his sexual immorality was praised by Jesus Himself.

Jesus stated that among men there was none greater than John.

Extra-Biblical history is also replete with examples of MASCULINE CHRISTIANITY. The period of the AMERICAN REVOLUTION is one in which deeply religious men took up the sword to overthrow an unrighteous oppressor. THE GREAT MISSIONARY AND REFORM MOVEMENTS ARE ADDITIONAL EXAMPLES OF MASCULINE CHRISTIANITY AT WORK.

The defining characteristic of each of these examples is the conquest of evil by God’s people -- mostly men. Masculinity is by no means the exclusive domain of men, but it naturally has greater appeal to men in the same way that feminine ministries of the church appeal more to women. Indeed, this explains why the majority of church members today are women or married couples in which the husband attends church at
the request of the wife. Where are the men of this generation? Though some are in church, they are significantly outnumbered by women, and they tend to be the least active members of the congregation. Is it any wonder in the light of the de-emphasis of masculinity by the church?

The church and this nation cry out for a revival of masculine Christianity, which is to say that our church leaders need to stop being such, for lack of a better word, sissies when it comes to social and political issues. They need to spend as much time confronting perpetrators as they do comforting victims. They need to do less fretting, and more fighting for righteousness. For every motherly, feminine ministry of the
church such as a Crisis Pregnancy Center or ex-gay support group, we need a battle-hardened, take-it-to-the-enemy masculine ministry like Operation Rescue (questions of civil disobedience aside). For every God-
hating radical in government, academia and media we need a bold, no-nonsense, truth-telling Christian counterpart: trained, equipped and endorsed by the local church.

These are not easy words to hear for those in authority in the church today, but I offer no apology for saying them, because this is the hard truth that all of us must confront. We are on the brink of utter defeat by our cultural adversaries and the church is only now beginning to wake up to the consequences of our past passivity. We are rapidly nearing a point in time when even a strong call to action, were it to be heard from every one of America’s pulpits, would be insufficient to resolve our nation’s moral crisis. There comes a point of no return in every declining culture.

I imagine us Christians as reclusive householders in an Old Testament walled city. A few of us have stepped out onto the street, confused and dazed, to find our city overrun by enemy soldiers with more coming over the walls. Buildings are burning, the watchmen are falling back under an incredible onslaught,and most of our warriors are still sleeping soundly. We have reached that split-second of decision in which
we must choose whether to rush forward into battle on the chance that we can defeat the invaders, or to surrender and look on in resignation as our children are marched off into slavery in a foreign land.

Copyright 2001, Scott Douglas Lively
This 1200 word editorial may be freely reproduced and distributed on the condition that our contact information is provided with it. Contact: Scott Lively, Abiding Truth Ministries, 6060 Sunrise Vista Drive,
Citrus Heights, CA 95610 (916) 676-1057, lively@abidingtruth, www.abidingtruth.com

XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

In conclusion, this thread started off as a celebration for an enemy of the Cross, and an enemy of America being killed while involved in a war--a war that he was involved in that amounted to beheadings, murder, rape, car bombs, people bombs, kidnap and ransom, and mayhem. How did that celebration end up as a treatise on Christ's love.

What is missing here? What are we all about? Do we "Spiritualize" everything in order not to face evil, head to head like Abraham, David, and all the others? We are NOT Jesus Christ, we are men of flesh and blood that have a job to do. The job cannot be done while sitting on the couch, or sitting at our computers fantasizing that we are Jesus Christ, or that we are even like Him. He sees us that way because we have the down payment, the Holy Ghost that lives in our hearts, but we are still not like Him. We have Adams flesh and Adams blood in our veins. We will not be like Him until the rapture. In the meantime, let's all get to work!

God bless,

Stever :-D

 2006/6/9 20:19





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