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crsschk
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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

Quote:
Just today a dear Christian mother/wife shared most honestly with me about her exasperation over her painful marriage caused largely by her unrepentant, hardened husband. She plans to remain committed to him just as God would desire, and now she is seeking measures to improve the relationship. When I asked her what she wished, she said, “I just want to be happy.” Of course, as a direct result of this thread discussion, I had a ready respond, and asked, “Who is the center? “ And she said, ‘Well, me, I guess”. This was precious honesty – so simple, but so true. That gave me the freedom to point out, “You need to repent of this idolatrous desire.” I may as well have offered her a holiday on a cruise – It relieved her of her endless futile efforts to bring about righteousness in her family. She welcomed it eagerly like a refreshing glass of water. And why not!


In all honesty, when you got to the point of making that statement I really was anticipating a different outcome ... But praise God, what a wonderful relief to bring that home to her heart.

Your second post ... My goodness you are bringing forth some tremendous things here.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2006/6/2 23:31Profile









 The grace of God DOES NOT set aside any of the commandments

Rom 8:2-5; "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

The truth really is that when you live the life of grace, you come into a real liberty so that you can obey Jesus and obey God's laws and then you find a new motive coming up within you because the Holy Spirit sheds abroad in your heart a love of God that gives you a new motive for obeying.

In fact, it is natural for you to find within you a desire to obey His laws. Why, because the laws themselves are a description of the life of the Holy Spirit and He is in you. It is God's promise that we should come into a place where we will automatically obey these laws because of the life that is within us.

In other words, if you look at Romans 6:15 and you look at the question, "Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace?" The answer is really three fold. The first answer is in Jesus own life. He was a man, the first born among many brethren who experienced the life of God's Holy Spirit flowing through Him and yet he obeyed the law in every detail. So the first answer is in Jesus own life. He was the first born among those who were borne of the grace of God's Holy Spirit and He obeyed law and you remember, sinning is not obeying law.

So the question is ridiculous, are we to sin because we're no longer under law but under grace? No, law is just a list of the symptoms of the life that the Holy Spirit produces in you and so once you're under grace and have begun to receive the life of the Holy Spirit, it is as impossible for you to act against law as it is for this bible to fall upwards. It cannot fall upwards. The law of gravity says, it has to fall down unless it gets outside the atmosphere of the earth and unless you get outside the atmosphere of the Holy Spirit, it is impossible for you to find within you a rebellion against God's laws.

Many church going people think that being under grace is just having their sins forgiven, but a body of men and women do live in victory over sin. The Bible says, that sin will no longer have dominion over you because you are not under law but under grace. We say, "That's right. We're not under law so we don't need to obey the law so it doesn't matter whether I lose my temper or not, I am under grace. God will forgive me. It doesn't matter what kind of miserable life I continue to live throughout the rest of my day".

The grace of God DOES NOT set aside any of the commandments or allow for any disobedience.

God's word is just sure and firm. "Sin will have no longer dominion over you because you are not under law, but you are under grace", you're not trying to obey the law on your own but you have allowed that old self to be destroyed and it's now the power of the Holy Spirit obeying the law through you.

 2006/6/3 8:48
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2740
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

Quote:
Clearly, there is no escaping law unless one is truly trusting in God – that is, who he really is. How deeply do we believe it? God knows and deepens faith through Spirit conviction.



This is really the crux of the matter isn't it? I find it easier to be busy serving God than to simply trust God to do in me what I cannot do. And if I don't trust God to do what He says He will do in me, how can I ever trust Him for others?

In Christ,

Ron


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Ron Halverson

 2006/6/3 9:23Profile
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4794


 Re:

Sister Diane wrote:

Quote:
When I asked her what she wished, she said, “I just want to be happy.” Of course, as a direct result of this thread discussion, I had a ready respond, and asked, “Who is the center? “ And she said, ‘Well, me, I guess”. This was precious honesty – so simple, but so true. That gave me the freedom to point out, “You need to repent of this idolatrous desire.” I may as well have offered her a holiday on a cruise – It relieved her of her endless futile efforts to bring about righteousness in her family. She welcomed it eagerly like a refreshing glass of water.





This is an example of Scripture found in Proverbs...

Prov. 10:11 The mouth of the righteous is a well of life,
But violence covers the mouth of the wicked.


Prov. 10:20 The tongue of the righteous is choice silver;
The heart of the wicked is worth little.
21 The lips of the righteous feed many,
But fools die for lack of wisdom.

Prov. 10:30 The righteous will never be removed,
But the wicked will not inhabit the earth.
31 The mouth of the righteous brings forth wisdom,
But the perverse tongue will be cut out.
32 The lips of the righteous know what is acceptable,
But the mouth of the wicked what is perverse.


Do you see how Scripture paints a picture of what we ourselves experience according to the law of the Spirit?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/6/4 9:53Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4794


 Re:

Sister Diane wrote:

Quote:
I think that these two faulty methods of achieving “righteousness” are difficult to detect because they get masked behind a huge pile of assorted religious trappings. Yet if you let all that stuff settle out, I suspect you end up with two little mounds - basically Calvinism-ish (imputed righteousness) and Armenianism-ish (earned righteousness). And mankind just swings back and forth between the two, as long as they reject the place of rest and freedom (God’s unmovable plumbline).



Imputed righteousness is freely given based on the mercy of God. The law of the Spirit is available to all who call out to God...

Prov. 8:1 Does not wisdom cry out,
And understanding lift up her voice?
2 She takes her stand on the top of the high hill,
Beside the way, where the paths meet.
3 She cries out by the gates, at the entry of the city,
At the entrance of the doors:
4 “To you, O men, I call,
And my voice is to the sons of men.
5 O you simple ones, understand prudence,
And you fools, be of an understanding heart.
6 Listen, for I will speak of excellent things,
And from the opening of my lips will come right things;
7 For my mouth will speak truth;
Wickedness is an abomination to my lips.
8 All the words of my mouth are with righteousness;
Nothing crooked or perverse is in them.
9 They are all plain to him who understands,
And right to those who find knowledge.
10 Receive my instruction, and not silver,
And knowledge rather than choice gold;
11 For wisdom is better than rubies,
And all the things one may desire cannot be compared with her.
12 “I, wisdom, dwell with prudence,
And find out knowledge and discretion.


The grace of God enable those who hear to grow in wisdom and understanding. The law of faith brings this to the believer.


Rom. 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.


We have access by faith into this grace in which we stand...this is where liberty from the law is learned in obedience to the law of the Spirit.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/6/4 10:13Profile
crsschk
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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Law of the Spirit

Hi Jeff,

Quote:
Do you see how Scripture paints a picture of what we ourselves experience according to the law of the Spirit?



Love that you often draw us out by way of presenting these things in the form of a question.
To see if I am tracking with you ...

Pro 15:23 A man hath joy by the answer of his mouth: and a word spoken in due season, how good is it!

Found it interesting that there is two somewhat parallel threads running right now, one on Romans 8:1 and this one that carries out primarily from Rom 8:2 [i]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.[/i] Something about the direction they are going ...

On a side note. Was listening to a remarkable series from [url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?op=&cid=129]Devern Fromke[/url] yesterday that he brings forth some incredible wisdom out of the life of David as the tittles suggest. But that is almost a bit deceiving, the tittles. What he ends up doing is drawing out spiritual 'principles' not 'biblical principles' per se and found it feeds directly off much of what is being discussed here, couldn't recommend it more highly, he gets right down to the heart of the matter.

There is something of a great importance that is being developed here ...


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Mike Balog

 2006/6/4 10:36Profile
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re:correction

Quote:
Imputed righteousness is freely given based on the mercy of God. The law of the Spirit is available to all who call out to God...


Jeff, many thanks for taking your "fine-toothed comb" through my words.

I really should have written "ASSUMED imputed righteousness" to express the (hyper?) calvinism-ish bent. I suspect such off-balance develops when professing Christians try to make God's truth accommodate their as-yet-unredeemed condition.
Diane


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Diane

 2006/6/4 13:03Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4794


 Re: Law of the Spirit

Brother Mike wrote:

Quote:
To see if I am tracking with you ...

Pro 15:23 A man hath joy by the answer of his mouth: and a word spoken in due season, how good is it!



Yes.

Psalm 119

12 Blessed are You, O LORD!
Teach me Your statutes.
13 With my lips I have declared
All the judgments of Your mouth.
14 I have rejoiced in the way of Your testimonies,
As much as in all riches.


As the Lord prepares us for good works, we walk along paths of righteousness. There are times where we share words with others because He Himself has prepared us in the Scripture or in our meditations, hours or days before.

When we experience where this Wisdom comes from, and see the result of where we have been, understanding comes as we continue to grow into a fountain of living water...

Amen Brother Mike...

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/6/4 17:26Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4794


 Re:

Phil. 3:7 But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ. 8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith; 10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, 11 if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.


In this section of Scripture, Paul speaks of his own understanding that God has given to him. Look carefully to these words...

"that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law,"

Paul understands that one can easily continue to be in bondage of the law given on Mount Sinai. He himself admits that the righteousness that comes of the law of Moses is without value. His prayer is that he continues to learn through faith, the rigtheousness that Christ teaches.

The law of faith overcomes the carnal mind. For the carnal mind cannot please God. How often do we come up empty in our own efforts? How often do we hurt one another, even with what we believe to be acceptable in God's eyes.

These experiences of failure and frustration paint a picture of the weakeness of the law of Moses because it is dependent on the flesh.

When one begins to understand what the law of faith brings, the substance of what we experience begins to introduce us to our Savior. We begin to understand how He is our Savior. We begin to understand how lost we are. We begin to see the wonderful truth of Scripture and then how His voice faithfully continues to teach us about what and how He goes about His day, caring for us.

The substance of this understanding creates the hope that becomes more precious than gold and silver. Because He has changed the substance of what we hope for, the path we begin to walk creates the evidence of His promise.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/6/4 17:57Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: walking in freedom

Jeff wrote:

Quote:
As the Lord prepares us for good works, we walk along paths of righteousness. There are times where we share words with others because He Himself has prepared us in the Scripture or in our meditations, hours or days before.


Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. 2 Tim 2:15

May we remind each other that living by the Spirit is not a passive condition in which we wait for “something” to happen to us, or through us. Walking in the Spirit means we assume our own responsibility: We draw close to our Lord and seek him for enlightenment through his word. In that way we grow in his righteousness, and are equipped to be his workman. And those around us can’t help but be touched. It is the product of our walk in the law of faith.

On the contrary, a carnal life is like an empty cup of water – it has nothing to give. It is too self-absorbed in its pursuit of self-righteousness and the right answers.

Quote:
The law of faith overcomes the carnal mind. For the carnal mind cannot please God. How often do we come up empty in our own efforts? How often do we hurt one another, even with what we believe to be acceptable in God's eyes.


So true! I can relate.

Quote:
These experiences of failure and frustration paint a picture of the weakness of the law of Moses because it is dependent on the flesh.


This emptiness we experience, if we will admit it, can help us recognize our failure to walk in faith

The following thought is rich – and I believe, the overall message of Psalm 119:
Quote:
When one begins to understand what the law of faith brings,
the substance of what we experience begins to introduce us to our Savior.

We begin to understand [color=CC33CC]how[/color] He is our Savior.

We begin to understand [b][color=CC33CC]how[/color][/b] lost we are.

We begin to see the wonderful truth of Scripture

and then [b][color=CC33CC]how[/color][/b] His voice faithfully continues to teach us
about what and [b][color=CC33CC]how[/color][/b] He goes about His day, caring for us.

The substance of this understanding creates the hope that becomes more precious than gold and silver.

Because He has changed the substance of what we hope for, the path we begin to walk creates the evidence of His promise.



Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they shall be filled. Matt. 5:6



Ps. 119: 18 Open my eyes that I may see
wonderful things in your law.

20 My soul is consumed with longing
for your laws at all times.

24 Your statutes are my ,b>delight;
they are my counselors.

32 I run in the path of your commands,
for you have set my heart free.

45 I will walk about in freedom,
for I have sought out your precepts

72 The law from your mouth is more precious to me
than thousands of pieces of silver and gold.

These are Old Testament verses. What law is the writer thinking about? What precepts, statutes, decrees, promises?

Diane


_________________
Diane

 2006/6/5 7:08Profile





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