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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : Jonathan Edwards - Undiscerned Spiritual Pride

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crsschk
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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: On Pleasing all Men ~ John Wesley

[i]Let every man please his neighbour for his good to edification.[/i] Romans 15:2


([i]Excerpted[/i])

I. 1. I advise all that desire to “please their neighbour for his good to edification,” First, to remove all hindrances out of the way; or, in other words, to avoid everything which tends to displease wise and good men, men of sound understanding and real piety. Now “cruelty, malice, envy, hatred, and revenge” are displeasing to all good men, to all who are endued with sound understanding and genuine piety. There is likewise another temper related to these, only in a lower kind, and which is usually found in common life, wherewith men in general are not pleased. We commonly call it ill-nature. With all possible care avoid all these; nay, and whatever bears any resemblance to them, — as sourness, sternness, sullenness, on the one hand; peevishness and fretfulness, on the other, — if ever you hope to “please your neighbour for his good to edification.”

2. Next to cruelty, malice, and similar tempers, with the words and actions that naturally spring therefrom, nothing is more disgusting, not only to persons of sense and religion, but even to the generality of men, than pride, haughtiness of spirit, and its genuine fruit, an assuming, arrogant, overbearing behaviour. Even uncommon learning, joined with shining talents, will not make amends for this; but a man of eminent endowments, if he be eminently haughty, will be despised by many, and disliked by all. Of this the famous Master of Trinity College in Cambridge, was a remarkable instance. How few persons of his time had a stronger understanding, or deeper learning, than Dr. Bentley! And yet how few were less beloved! unless one who was little, if at all, inferior to him in sense or learning, and equally distant from humility, — the author of “The Divine Legation of Moses.” Whoever, therefore, desires to please his neighbour for his good, must take care of splitting upon this rock. Otherwise the same pride which impels him to seek the esteem of his neighbour, will infallibly hinder his attaining it.

3. Almost as disgustful to the generality of men as haughtiness itself, is a passionate temper and behaviour. Men of a tender disposition are afraid even to converse with persons of this spirit. And others are not fond of their acquaintance; as frequently (perhaps when they expected nothing less) meeting with shocks, which if they bear for the present, yet they do not willingly put themselves in the way of meeting with again. Hence passionate men have seldom many friends; at least, not for any length of time. Crowds, indeed, may attend them for a season, especially when it may promote their interest. But they are usually disgusted one after another, and fall off like leaves in autumn. If therefore you desire lastingly to please your neighbour for his good, by all possible means avoid violent passion.

4. Yea, and if you desire to please, even on this account, take that advice of the Apostle, “Put away all lying.” It is the remark of an ingenious author, that, of all vices, lying never yet found an apologist, any that would openly plead in its favour, whatever his private sentiments might be. But it should be remembered, Mr. Addison went to a better world before Lord Chesterfield’s Letters were published. Perhaps his apology for it was the best that ever was or can be made for so bad a cause. But, after all, the labour he has bestowed thereon, it has only “semblance of worth, not substance.” It has no solidity in it; it is nothing better than a shining phantom. And as lying can never be commendable or innocent, so neither can it be pleasing; at least when it is stripped of its disguise, and appears in its own shape. Consequently, it ought to be carefully avoided by all those who wish to please their neighbour for his good to edification.

5. “But is not flattery,” a man may say, “one species of lying? And has not this been allowed in all ages to be the sure means of pleasing? Has not that observation been confirmed by numerous experiments, —

Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parat?

Flattery creates friends, plain-dealing enemies?


Has not a late witty [prominent] writer, in his ‘Sentimental Journal,’ related some striking instances of this?” I answer, It is true: Flattery is pleasing for a while. and not only to weak minds, as the desire of praise, whether deserved or undeserved, is planted in every child of man. But it is pleasing only for a while. As soon as the mask drops off, as soon as it appears that the speaker meant nothing by his soft words, we are pleased no longer. Every man’s own experience teaches him this. And we all know, that if a man continues to flatter, after his insincerity is discovered, it is disgustful, not agreeable. Therefore, even this fashionable species of lying is to be avoided, by all that are desirous of pleasing their neighbour to his lasting advantage.

6. Nay, whoever desires to do this must remember, that not only lying, in every species of it, but even dissimulation, (which is not the same with flattery, though nearly related to it,) is displeasing to men of understanding, though they have not religion. Terence represents even an old heathen, when it was imputed to him, as answering with indignation, Simulare non est meum: “Dissimulation is no part of my character.” Guile, subtlety, cunning, the whole art of deceiving, by whatever terms it is expressed, is not accounted an accomplishment by wise men, but is, indeed, an abomination to them. And even those who practise it most, who are the greatest artificers of fraud, are not pleased with it in other men, neither are fond of conversing with those that practise it on themselves. Yea, the greatest deceivers are greatly displeased at those that play their own arts back upon them.

II. Now, if cruelty, malice, envy, hatred, revenge, ill-nature; if pride and haughtiness; if irrational anger; if lying and dissimulation, together with guile, subtlety, and cunning, are all and every one displeasing to all men, especially to wise and good men, we may easily gather from hence what is the sure way to please them for their good to edification. Only we are to remember that there are those in every time and place whom we must not expect to please. We must not therefore be surprised when we meet with men who are not to be pleased any way. It is now, as it was of old when our Lord himself complained: “Whereunto shall I liken the men of this generation? They are like unto children sitting in the market-place, and saying to each other, We have piped unto you, but ye have not danced: We have mourned unto you, but ye have not wept.” But leaving these forward ones to themselves, we may reasonably hope to please others by a careful and steady observation of the few directions following.

1. First. Let love not visit you as a transient guest, but be the constant ruling temper of your soul. See that your heart be filled at all times and on all occasions with real, undissembled benevolence; not to those only that love you, but to every soul of man. Let it pant in your heart; let it sparkle in your eyes, let it shine on all your actions. Whenever you open your lips, let it be with love; and let there be in your tongue the law of kindness. Your word will then distill as the rain, and as the dew upon the tender herb. Be not straitened or limited in your affection, but let it embrace every child of man. Everyone that is born of a woman has a claim to your good-will. You owe this, not to some, but to all. And let all men know that you desire both their temporal and eternal happiness, as sincerely as you do your own.

2. Secondly. If you would please your neighbour for his good, study to be lowly in heart. Be little and vile in your own eyes, in honour preferring others before yourself. Be deeply sensible of your own weaknesses, follies, and imperfections; as well as of the sin remaining in your heart, and cleaving to all your words and actions. And let this spirit appear in all you speak or do: “Be clothed with humility.” Reject with horror that favourite maxim of the old heathen, sprung from the bottomless pit, Tanti eris aliis, quanti tibi fueris: “The more you value yourself, the more others will value you.” Not so. On the contrary, both God and man “resist the proud:” And, as “God giveth grace to the humble,” so humility, not pride, recommends us to the esteem and favour of men, especially those that fear God.

3. If you desire to please your neighbour for his good to edification you should, Thirdly, labour and pray that you may be meek as well as lowly in heart. Labour to be of a calm, dispassionate temper; gentle towards all men; and let the gentleness of your disposition appear in the whole tenor of your conversation. Let all your words and all your actions be regulated thereby. Remember, likewise that advice of St. Peter: As an addition to your gentleness, be merciful; “be courteous;” be pitiful; be tenderly compassionate to all that are in distress; to all that are under any affliction of mind, body, or estate. Let

The various scenes of human woe

Excite your softest sympathy!


Weep with them that weep. If you can do no more, at least mix your tears with theirs; and give them healing words, such as may calm their minds, and mitigate their sorrows. But if you can, if you are able to give them actual assistance, let it not be wanting. Be as eyes to the blind, as feet to the lame, a husband to the widow and a father to the fatherless. This will greatly tend to conciliate the affection, and to give a profitable pleasure not only to those who are immediate objects of your compassion, but to others likewise that “see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.”

4. And while you are pitiful to the afflicted, see that you are courteous toward all men. It matters not in this respect whether they are high or low, rich or poor, superior or inferior to you. No, nor even whether good or bad, whether they fear God or not. Indeed, the mode of showing your courtesy may vary, as Christian prudence will direct; but the thing itself is due to all; the lowest and worst have a claim to our courtesy. [But what is courtesy?] It may either be inward or outward; either a temper or a mode of behaviour. Such a mode of behaviour as naturally springs from courtesy of heart. Is this the same with good breeding, or politeness? (which seems to be only a high degree of good-breeding:) Nay, good breeding is chiefly the fruit of education; but education cannot give courtesy of heart. Mr. Addison’s well-known definition of politeness seems rather to be a definition of this: “A constant desire of pleasing all men, appearing through the whole conversation.” Now, this may subsist, even in a high degree, where there has been no advantage of education. I have seen as real courtesy in an Irish cabin, as could be found in St. James’s or the Louvre.

5. Shall we endeavour to go a little deeper, to search into the foundation of this matter? What is the source of that desire to please which we term courtesy? Let us look attentively into our heart, and we shall soon find the answer. The same Apostle that teaches us to be courteous, teaches us to honour all men; and his Master teaches me to love all men. Join these together, and what will be the effect? A poor wretch cries to me for an alms: I look and see him covered with dirt and rags. But through these I see one that has an immortal spirit, made to know and love and dwell with God to eternity. I honour him for his Creator’s sake. Lo, I see through all these rags that he is purpled over with the blood of Christ. I love him for the sake of his Redeemer. The courtesy, therefore, which I feel and show toward him is a mixture of the honour and love which I bear to the offspring of God; the purchase of his Son’s blood, and the candidate for immortality. This courtesy let us feel and show toward all men; and we shall please all men to their edification.

6. Once more. Take all proper opportunities of declaring to others the affection which you really feel for them. This may be done with such an air, and in such a manner, as is not liable to the imputation of flattery: And experience shows, that honest men are pleased by this, full as much as knaves are by flattery. Those who are persuaded that your expressions of good-will toward them are the language of your heart will be as well satisfied with them, as with the highest encomiums which you could pass upon them. You may judge them by yourselves, by what you feel in your own breast. You like to be honoured; but had you not rather be beloved?

7. Permit me to add one advice more. If you would please all men for their good, at all events speak to all men the very truth from your heart. When you speak, open the window of your breast: let the words be the very picture of your heart. In all company, and on all occasions, be a man of veracity. Nay, be not content with bare veracity; but “in simplicity and godly sincerity have all your conversation in the world,” as “an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile.”

8. To sum up all in one word-if you would please men, please God! Let truth and love possess your whole soul. Let them be the springs of all your affections, passions, tempers; the rule of all your thoughts. Let them inspire all your discourse; continually seasoned with that salt, and meet to “minister grace to the hearers.” Let all your actions be wrought in love. Never “let mercy or truth forsake thee: Bind them about thy neck.” Let them be open and conspicuous to all; and “write them on the table of thy heart.” “So shalt thou find favour and good understanding in the sight of God and man.”


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Mike Balog

 2008/3/16 11:49Profile
destinysweet
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Joined: 2007/11/19
Posts: 159


 Re:

That was great!Music to my ears! Oftimes when I am brought low by my own self importance and edgy pride..I listen to Corrie ten Boom's audios..this 'spiritual mother' mentored me through my early years and the seed she planted within my soul helped to transform so much of my thinking..it was knowing I could now hear her kind and gentle voice that I registered here on SI initially. While listening to her speak to my countrymen here in America,I couldn't help but wonder..certainly she saw their complacency..their immaturity..their lack of power and love,etc.but never does she behave towards them in a superior or scolding manner..never do her words lash out at them in haughty scorn as she encourages them with her gentle lowly manner always ,always pointing them to Jesus! In the one titled Spiritual Pride..I was cut to the marrow..at her repentance when she was ashamed at the way she spoke against the lack of faith in others,repenting quickly..what a shining example of humility and love of the brethren..Oh God,I cried in my heart, allow me to attain what she shows forth with such consistancy..sweet Jesus only You can make it so!

I have been too hasty in the past..impatient and headstrong,unwittingly causing trouble in the ranks..hoping for the same mercy to be shown to me as I am familiar recieving from the God of Patience..who of course knows all the days I have lived and what has transpired in each moment of this temporal life here on earth..I have occaisionally found my expectation to be in my brethren to love me unconditionally..big mistake..my expectation shal be in my God..period..I am pleasantly suprised when I can actually feel a persons warmth shine through..sense the beauty of their patience in addressing me..I do not let this go unnoticed..to me, this is worthy of praise..I praise God for them..underlining what is of good report,I will find the time to tell them of my appreciation..in today's world there is so little kindness..we must find ways to encourage it. Is it proud of me to suggest these things as though I had accomplished something others had not..in faith that others would be inspired to do this more is my motive..I have decided not to be afraid that others will not hear my heart in this..His perfect love has cast out my fear of being misunderstood. The highest law in the Universe is the heavenly law of love and liberty. May I always have the liberty to speak on kindness and genuine love..of repentance..and forgiveness and the newness of life that is ours in Jesus.

Now I am so very much more aware of what is required of me in waiting on God to post,praying it back to God first,sometimes for days before I write and then often seeing it spoken by another of same heart and mind..I rejoice in seeing the Holy spirit move in this way..it becomes very plain to see while watching over the interactions on the forum,what the Spirit is saying and what is the flesh of man and pride resisting the move of God upon the whole body,whether they are posting pages of scripture or just coming from their heart. I see that He is asking us to repent and confess our sins openly to one another...I have been doing this once having seen my sin and confessed it openly..though none gave an acknowledging word of acceptance or forgiveness afterwards..whether we ought to rejoice when someone draws nearer to God in repentance I leave that up to you to decide within your own heart.However it hurt..I felt snubbed and abandoned..ignored..not cared about..did they use my troubled post as just another place to prove to all how knowledgeable they are then walk away leaving me to wonderif they even cared where I came to..or what I was left understanding.So instead of carrying this around and then burying it..only for it to become a land mine I later step upon,I will expose my sin (to whom it may concern only)..of not being able to let go of this real or imagined lack of loving follow through.Of allowing the feeling of abandonement and dismissal to bait me into doubting your motives when we tried to interact again.In examining this paltry wound,not desiring to see it become infected through unforgiveness on my part..I once again realize that I must be content with the fact that God recieved my confession,that He kept listening..that hHe was watching over it all and saw my heart,forgiving me,irregardless of the manner in which it came forth..untroubled by the struggle it took to achieve awareness of the place I'd fallen,where I'd been robbed of my joy and began persecuting others with my then slightly overboard viewpoint.More important it seemed to me was the possibility that due to the wrestling that went on with the powers that sought to entangle me in such harshness..such stringent and ungenerous thinking..that I had alienated some who never recieved my heartfelt apology..or simply would not read it/believe it..as they did not respond..and seemed now to be bent against me. I would address those whomever you may be that have been struck by me while I flailed to regain my footing on this Rock of Ages.

And so I am asking again... if you did not recieve it before I will ask you to forgive me..since i do not want you to have to spell out everything you have against me..simply forgive me all, I am a sinner..I desire to love you and not judge you wrongly! I have accused and cannot rightly say if I was accurate but I do not care anymore ,either way..I do not wish to make this my business any longer,I am starting new with each of you..I am trusting Jesus..I am believing in His Redemptive transformative power..I am learning at the pace that God wills for me to learn..I can not speed it up any faster than the grace He provides to make it real and thorough..complete..I have no other desire than to be in His perfect will.So please be patient with me, I am surrendered,I am resting,trusting in Him.If I have caused you to distrust me and to despise me ,please ,let it go for your own sake..I would have us both have peace..the peace that passes whether I understand your motives for the things you say or not..I cannot be concerned with so much..it overwhelms me like an autistic child who cannot take any more in..I am shutting down my supersensitive feelers,to rock in His everlasting arms,content to be forgiven..I will assume the best as God provides this for me..I cannot attain it in myself.

I am saying this in hopes of encourageing more of us to join me in this..as one..He has me praying night and day for us all.. praying in earnest for the combatants and the patient admonishers...Praying that I could join in and contribute without becoming a part of the problem but rather in tune and directly a part of the solution.

And to those who still chafe and strain against the thought of admitting you are wrong to contend so fiercly over trifles..I have this to say;
I see you need at least a week long dose sitting under the humility of Corrie..an antidote she has for your problem ..this courageous woman of God who suffered so..she will teach you of a Christlike attitude,of forgiveness of wrongs you could not imagine.. who's personable way of exposing her own frailties coaxes the last of our resistance from any who are in earnest to have their own stubborn and hidden pride revealed that they might be set free to love with Christ's love..the highest Love,divine. Expose yourself to this outpouring of the sweetness of this brave soul who loves her Jesus so,this is the Jesus I follow,this heart so attractive..so powerfully kind..so wonderfully kind! If you come away not having shed one tear of repentance but rather find fault and are filled with contempt for her simplicity..let us know..we will pray with fervant love for your breaking..lest you in your superior knowledge be disqualified for lack of mercy and genuine love,forgiveness,faith filled patience and gentle kindness for your brethren..for if you cannot recieve them whom God sends to you..who have charge over you here on SI..how can you be trusted with those who are perishing..who are deeply troubled and need salvation..or His lost sheep who need restoration if you continously alienate even these who are presently living righteous lives before God..who so obviously love God and call upon the name of the Lord Jesus Christ? Abide in these, Faith, Hope and Love, become abundant in the fruit of His Spirit..of these things there is no end and no lack to those who desire them..an unending supply.

I have felt led to express my appreciation,and the Lord's,if you will allow me to be so bold to suggest I have heard Him speaking to me about your obediance, your example of humilty in the confessing of your sin,brother Crsschck,and the true focus He has shown for us to have at this time.

I am assured that He desires to root out this reoccuring problem of contentious meansprited garbage as it is worthless, unfit for our ingestion ..this humbling of ourselves is truly the direction that He is taking all who are coming to this site and the church at large.Every day the Holy Spirit is speaking the same message/variations on the theme all over the site,unto and over every believer,I am listening..I am recieving ,it is exciting..encouraging..and so we search our hearts before Him..what would You have me do to contribute to this movement of Your Spirit of Truth upon us as a whole. I am willing to lay down every single meanspirited/unworthy thought and take it captive..whether it originates in me or is only an echo of what someone has spoken or insinuated about me..and is now just a painful memory,I will forgive the debt even if those who transgressed against me,have not been able to pay me back with an apology.. unwilling to believe they were wrong..My peace cannot be contingent on them or their awareness of their own sin..I will forgive and pray for them in genuine love...letting You be the Judge, Dear Righteous and Holy One..Just and True Counselor.I have been and will continue laying down(I invite you to join me here) every known grudge..Open to our understanding,dear Father, the ones we do not reconize as being a grudge,yet are,in truth,small pockets of festering unforgiveness,slights and petty provokings unworthy to have been dwelt upon..let me be as You were Lord..who took no heed to their words when it was more appropriate to simply turn away,if it is only to turn the other cheek,suffering the stinging pain of bad temper unleased upon us..as the season draws nearer to when we commemorate Your humble death on the cross and Your triumphant Resurrection..though it may never be far from our hearts and minds,teach us when to provide others with answers to the hope that is in us, whether questioned in earnest or interrogated with an evil agenda,and also when we ought to be still and allow You to answer them Yourself..Let us all take a longer and still deeper look at your cross and lay down our petty ways of self righteousness and defensiveness.You are exposing all things that are hidden here..You are going to present to Yourself a bride who is ready..without spot or wrinkle.Make us ready.Lord! We wait for You!


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G.M. (Destiny) Sweet

 2008/3/16 21:49Profile
jarona
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Joined: 2007/7/3
Posts: 162
The Earth

 Re: Jonathan Edwards - Undiscerned Spiritual Pride

wow that is a good post. God help me...


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Jaron

 2008/3/17 2:03Profile
crsschk
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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Jonathan Edwards - Undiscerned Spiritual Pride

([i]Note: Borrowed from another highly recommended thread,[/i] [url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=23026&forum=45&post_id=&refresh=Go]Revive Our Hearts[/url])

[b]Humility[/b]

Humility has tremendous value before God. It says in 1 Peter 3:4 that a meek and gentle spirit is extremely precious to God - whether found in a woman or in a man. Jesus Himself had a humble and gentle heart and told us to learn these virtues from Him (Matt.11:28). A gentle and a quiet spirit is one that is not agitated or in unrest. Some washing machines have what is called an "agitator". It turns one way and then the other way - perpetually. It is never at rest, it is always "agitating"! In the hearts of all who are born of Adam too, there is an "agitator". If anyone rubs them the wrong way, the agitator starts "agitating". But those who are humble and gentle in spirit have got rid of this agitator. They are not offended or hurt, when anyone says or does something to them , or when they don't say or do something that was expected of them. They have put their "agitator" on the cross. Peter says that the beauty of a gentle and a quiet spirit is "imperishable"! This is the secret of eternal beauty. The world is full of women nowadays who are wanting to look younger. But what is the beauty that is really imperishable? It is a gentle and a quiet spirit. And this is for men too! This is what will make you really precious to God - if you have a gentle, quiet spirit that is not agitated or offended, that doesn't get into bad moods, that is not grumpy or angry. You need never lose control of yourself at any time either, for the fruit of the Spirit is self-control. Let the world be full of people who have "agitators" but that's not for us any longer. Praise the Lord, we can get rid of our agitators permanently.

When Jesus told His disciples that their righteousness must exceed that of the scribes and the Pharisees, what did He mean? The righteousness of the Pharisees was a matter of "right" and "wrong". But Jesus wanted the righteousness of His disciples to comprise of more than that. It was to include humility, brokenness, gentleness and quietness of spirit as well. He told them that otherwise they would NEVER enter the kingdom of God. I don't know how many of us really believe what Jesus said. In Hebrews 4:1, we are asked to fear lest we do not enter into this "rest" that Jesus offers - this freedom from "agitating". And in verse 11, we are told to be diligent to ensure that we enter into that rest. Have you entered into that rest yourself? Have you forgiven all those who have cheated you, and those who have wronged you? Have you cleansed your heart of all bitterness, hatred, anxiety and greed? This is what will enable us to enter into that rest of God. There is no person or situation in the world, that can ever prevent Romans 8:28 ("All things work together for good for those who love God....") and 1 Corinthians 10:13 ("God will not allow you to be tempted beyond your ability....") from being fulfilled in your life, if you are a disciple of Jesus. We can never be tempted beyond our ability. That is impossible - because God is faithful to His promises. And everything - yes, everything - will work for our good. A humble person can never fall, because he is already at ground-level! How then can he fall down!! When God's Word says, "He is able to keep you from falling" (Jude 24), it is thus that the Lord keeps us - by keeping our faces in the dust before Him. Then it becomes impossible to fall.

The way of escape promised in 1 Corinthians 10:13 is the way of humbling ourselves. We humble ourselves, because we believe that God will give us grace and lift us up. Just as in water-baptism, we submit readily to someone who immerses us in the water, because we believe that he will lift us up again. In the same way, we also believe that the God who allows some situation to crush us will lift us up and bring a resurrection in our lives too. God is a consuming fire who is determined to consume every bit of pride from every corner of our hearts - if we will let Him. He will arrange people and circumstances in such a way that every particle of pride is totally consumed. Let us cooperate then with Him and allow the Spirit to do a perfect work within us.

Zac Poonen


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Mike Balog

 2008/4/19 22:49Profile
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 Re: Jonathan Edwards - Undiscerned Spiritual Pride

Humility is the life and soul of piety, the foundation and support of every virtue and good work, the best guard and security of all holy affections. I recommend that you make humility a constant subject of your daily devotions, earnestly desiring you to think no day safe or likely to end well, in which you have not early humbled yourself before God and called upon Him to carry you through the day in the exercise of a meek and lowly spirit…

Humility does not consist in having a worse opinion of ourselves than we deserve, or in abasing ourselves lower than we really are, but as all virtue is founded in truth, so humility is founded in a true and just sense of our weakness, misery and sin. He who rightly feels and lives in this sense of his condition, lives in humility…

You must practice humility like a young beginner that has all of it to learn, that can learn but little at a time, and with great difficulty. You must consider that you have not only humility to learn, but that you must be content to proceed as a learner in it all your time, endeavoring after greater degrees of it, and practicing every day acts of humility as you every day practice acts of devotion….

In order to begin and set out well in the practice of humility, you must take it for granted that you are proud, that you have all your life been more or less infected with pride. You should believe also, that it is your greatest weakness, that your heart is most subject to it, that it is so constantly stealing upon you that you have reason to watch and suspect its approaches in all your actions.

There is no one vice that is more deeply rooted in our nature or that receives such constant nourishment from almost everything that we think or do, than pride. There is hardly anything in the world that we want or use, or any action or duty of life, but pride finds some means or other to take hold of it. At what time so ever we begin to offer ourselves to God, we can hardly be surer of any thing, than that we have a great deal of pride to repent of.

If you find it disagreeable to your mind to entertain this opinion of yourself, and cannot put yourself amongst those who from heaven had told you, that you have not only much, but all your humility to seek. You can have no greater sign of a confirmed pride, than when you think that you are humble enough. He who thinks he loves God enough shows himself to be an entire stranger to that holy passion. So he who thinks he has humility enough shows that he is not so much as a beginner in the practice of true humility.

William Law


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CHRISTIAN

 2008/4/21 16:45Profile
crsschk
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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Pride

[i]Hence also it is that men do so magnify their own opinions, and are as censorious of any that differ from them in lesser things, as if it were all one to differ from them and from God. They expect that all should conform to their judgment, as if they were the rulers of the Church's faith; and while we cry down papal infallibility, too many of us would be popes ourselves, and have all stand to our determination, as if we were infallible. It is true, we have more modesty than expressly to say so. We pretend that it is only the evidence of truth in our reasons, that we expect men should yield to, and our zeal is the truth and not for ourselves. But as that must needs be taken for truth which is ours, so our reasons must needs be taken for valid. And if they be but freely examined and be found fallacious, as we are exceedingly backward to see it ourselves because they are ours, so we are angry that it should be disclosed to others. We so espouse the cause of our errors, as if all that were spoken against them were spoken against our persons, and we were heinously injured to have our arguments thoroughly confuted, by which we injured the truth and the souls of men. The matter is come to this pass through our pride, that if an error or fallacious argument do fall under the patronage of a reverend name (which is nothing rare), we must either allow it the victory and give away the truth, or else become injurious to that name that doth patronize it. For though you meddle not with their persons, yet do they put themselves under all the strokes which you give their arguments; and feel them as sensibly as if you had spoken of themselves, because they think it will follow in the eyes of others, that weak arguing is a sign of a weak man. If, therefore, you consider it your duty to shame their errors and false reasonings by discovering their nakedness, they take it as if you shamed their persons. And so their names must be a garrison or fortress to their mistakes, and their reverence must defend all their sayings from attack.[/i]


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Mike Balog

 2008/5/23 9:16Profile









 Re: Pride

Quote:
The matter is come to this pass through our pride, that if an error or fallacious argument do fall under the patronage of a reverend name (which is nothing rare), we must either allow it the victory and give away the truth, or else become injurious to that name that doth patronize it.




I think this statement bares pondering who is our pride in, or what is our pride in.

Pride is good thing but only when it is in HIM.
When it is in ourselves, it's sin or self righteousness.
1. a high or inordinate opinion of one's own dignity, importance, merit, or superiority, whether as cherished in the mind or as displayed in bearing, conduct, etc.

Faith is pride in HIM. (confidence)

A little boy who has an evil Daddy will not ever get into a " My Daddy can whoop your Daddy argument" why, he don't have any faith in his Daddy.


 2008/5/23 9:57
bonni
Member



Joined: 2005/8/9
Posts: 100
montana usa

 Re:


hmmhmm quoted


"You must consider that you have not only humility to learn, but that you must be content to proceed as a learner in it all your time, endeavoring after greater degrees of it, and practicing every day acts of humility as you every day practice acts of devotion…."



This is very good, your whole quote is very good, I see it is by William Law,is it from "An Affectionate Address to the Clergy" or from the newer version edited by Dave Hunt called "The Power of the Spirit?"

blessings bonni


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Bonni

 2008/5/23 12:34Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

Quote:

bonni wrote:

hmmhmm quoted


"You must consider that you have not only humility to learn, but that you must be content to proceed as a learner in it all your time, endeavoring after greater degrees of it, and practicing every day acts of humility as you every day practice acts of devotion…."



This is very good, your whole quote is very good, I see it is by William Law,is it from "An Affectionate Address to the Clergy" or from the newer version edited by Dave Hunt called "The Power of the Spirit?"

blessings bonni




I think it is from this book Bonni, My memory fails me, but i am almost sure it is this one, it is the only one i read from him. So if it is not from some article it is from this book

[url=http://www.gracegems.org/book4/William_Law.htm]A SERIOUS CALL TO A DEVOUT AND HOLY LIFE [/url]


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CHRISTIAN

 2008/5/23 13:13Profile
bonni
Member



Joined: 2005/8/9
Posts: 100
montana usa

 Re: TO HMM HMM

Brother if you like William Laws "A serious call to a devout and holy life" then you would love the book that he wrote the last year of his life. It is from a more seasoned, tempered saint and is definitely one of the most powerful books I have ever read. Andrew Murry edited it during his lifetime to make it more readable and pleaded that all the clergy would read and take it to heart. Dave Hunt from the "Berean Call" has reedited the book and given it a new name. It is called "The Power of the Spirit" by William Law. I gave one to Keith Daniel, and many others that are in ministry, it was a turning point in my christian walk.


I just realized that I am getting off the subject of the original post...I am sorry. :-(


bonni


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Bonni

 2008/5/23 14:15Profile





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