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hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4994
Sweden

 Re:

i feel sometimes people make things more complicated then they have to.

Jesus is god.... Gods word are in the bible...the bible is gods word...

now we can twist it and turn it...but if tou want to know what jesus said and did...you read his word............the bible.

christian


_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2006/5/26 14:35Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

[b]Psalm 138:2[/b] [color=990000] I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: [b]for thou hast magnified thy word[/color]Commandment [color=990000]above and/or according to all thy name.[/b][/color]Honor, Authority, Character

In the septuagent, the word for "name" is LOGOS which is the same greek word used in John 1:1.

This psalm in not refering to the WORD that was GOD and is GOD but His revieled word that we call the bible.

[b]Word[/b] H565 אמרה ,אמרה 'imrâh, 'emrâh, im-raw',
em-raw':
The second form is the feminine of H561, and meaning the same: - commandment, speech, [b]word[/b].

[b]Name[/b]: H8034 שׁם shêm, shame:
A primitive word (perhaps rather from H7760 through the idea of definite and conspicuous position; compare H8064); an appellation, as a mark or memorial of individuality; by implication honor, authority, character: - + base, [in-] fame [-ous], [/b]name (-d), renown, report.

I agree that The book is not Jesus(the Word made flesh) as you are saying but, the Bible is literaly the word of God.

As we say in an oath, "you have my word on it".
And
"Your word is only as good as your name."

Your name is who you are, it represents you.

The bible represents God.

 2006/5/26 16:24Profile









 Re: Response to ccchhhrrriiisss

Stever responds:

The Bible tells us in Jude 1:3-5 to [u][b][color=00CC00]CONTEND[/color][/b][/u] for the faith:
3. Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly CONTEND for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. 4. For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. 5. I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

Jude 1:9 tells us that “9. Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.”

What is the definition of CONTEND in the Noah Webster 1828 Dictionary of the American Language?

[u][b][color=0099FF]CONTEND, v.i. [L., to stretch. Gr., See Tend, Tenet.] [/color][/b][/u]
1. To strive, or to strive against; to struggle in opposition.
Distress not the Moabites, nor contend with them in battle. Deuteronomy 2.
2. To strive; to use earnest efforts to obtain, or to defend and preserve.
You sit above, and see vain men below contend for what you only can bestow.
Ye should earnestly contend for the faith once delivered to the saints. Jude 3.
3. To dispute earnestly; to strive in debate.
They that were of the circumcision contended with him. Acts 11. Job 9.
4. To REPROVE sharply; to chide; to strive to convince and reclaim.
Then contended I with the rulers. Nehemiah 13.
5.To strive in opposition; to punish.
The Lord God called to contend by fire. Amos 7.
6. To quarrel; to dispute fiercely; to wrangle. The parties contend about trifles.
To contend for, to strive to obtain; as, two competitors contend for the prize.
CONTEND, v.t. To dispute; to contest.
When Carthage shall contend the world with Rome.
This transitive use of contend is not strictly legitimate. The phrase is elliptical, for being understood after contend; but it is admissible in poetry.
[Previous page in the dictionary] [Next page in the dictionary]
contend is also found in 55 definitions:
• altercate
• antagonize
• bandy
• battle
• bicker
• buffet
• camp-fight
• chide
• combat
• combatant
• con
• conflict
• contention
• contentious
• contentiousness
• contest
• controversy
• controvert
• cope
• deal
• debate
• differ
• dispute
• earnestly
• fall
• far
• fight
• grapple
• intercede
• open
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[u][b][color=00CC00]CONTEND is not a gentle word. It is a word that describes a struggle in opposition, To strive to defend and preserve, to list just a few definitions.

When we have a person who says they are a Christian believer, yet make the statement THAT JESUS CHRIST TOLD THEM THAT THE BIBLE IS NOT THE WORD OF GOD, that person gets everyones attention. I am instructed to contend for the faith. This is FALSE DOCTRINE THAT JESUS CHRIST HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH. The only "spirit" that would make such a claim is Satan, or one of his fallen angels, or our own wicked flesh. That is what has taken place here. When we find out that a “believer” has taken similar positions to this in the past (that the Bible is NOT the Word of God) , it is then our duty to open his eyes to God’s position on these things, to CONTEND for the Faith.[/color][/b][/u]

Proverbs 9:8-9 tells us that if a wise man is rebuke, he will love you:

8. REPROVE not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee. 9. Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser: teach a just man, and he will increase in learning.
Websters 1828 Dictionary gives us this understanding of “rebuke”:

[u][b][color=00CC00]REBU'KE, v.t. [See Pack and Impeach.] [/color][/b][/u]
1. To chide; to REPROVE; to reprehend for a fault; to check by reproof.
The proud he tam'd, the penitent he cheer'd, not to rebuke the rich offender fear'd.
Thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbor. Lev. 19.
2. To check or restrain.
The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan. Zech. 3. Is. 17.
3. To chasten; to punish; to afflict for correction.
O Lord, rebuke me not in thine anger. Ps. 6.
4. To check; to silence.
Master, rebuke thy disciples. Luke 19.
5. To check; to heal.
And he stood over her and rebuked the fever. Luke 4.
6. To restrain; to calm.
He arose and rebuked the winds and the sea. Matt. 8.

[u][b][color=00CC00]REBU'KE, n. [/color][/b][/u]1. A chiding; reproof for faults; reprehension.
Why bear you these rebukes and answer not?
2. IN SCRIPTURE, CHASTISEMENT; PUNISHMENT; AFFLICTION FOR THE PURPOSE OF RESTRAINT AND CORRECTION. EZEK. 5. HOS. 5.
[Previous page in the dictionary] [Next page in the dictionary]
rebuke is also found in 32 definitions:
• chasten
• check
• chide
• chiding
• come


[u][b][color=00CC00]DOCTRINE[/color][/b][/u], n. [L., to teach.]
1. In a general sense, whatever is taught. Hence, a principle or position in any science; whatever is laid down as true by an instructor or master. The doctrines of the gospel are the principles or truths taught by Christ and his apostles. The doctrines of Plato are the principles which he taught. Hence a doctrine may be true or false; it may be a mere tenet or opinion.
2. The act of teaching.
He taught them many things by parables, and said to them in his doctrine. Mark 4.
3. Learning; knowledge.
Whom shall he make to understand doctrine? Isaiah 28.
4. The truths of the gospel in general.
That they may adorn the doctrine of God our Savior in all things. Titus 2.
5. Instruction and confirmation in the truths of the gospel. 2 Timothy 3.
[Previous page in the dictionary] [Next page in the dictionary]
doctrine is also found in 180 definitions

[b][color=00CC00]REPROOF', n. [from REPROVE]. [/color][/b]

1. Blame expressed to the face; censure for a fault; reprehension.
Those best can bear reproof, who merit praise.
He that hateth reproof is brutish. Prov 12.
2. Blame cast; censure directed to a person.
[Previous page in the dictionary] [Next page in the dictionary]
reproof is also found in 40 definitions:

• rebuke
• admonition
• censure
• check
• chide
• chiding
• corrector
• correption
When a brother in the Lord posts heresy, he must be rebuked. If he has come forward with the same false doctrine before, and he has, we must get his attention.

That is exactly what I did. Was it too severe? I think not.

[u][b][color=00CC00]Proverbs 19:25 tells us “25. Smite a scorner, and the simple will beware: and REPROVE one that hath understanding, and he will understand knowledge.”-THIS APPLIES TO BEENBLAKE!

Ephesians 5:8-16 tells us to REPROVE those who have fallen away:
8. For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: 9. (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) 10. Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. 11. And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather REPROVE them. 12. For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. 13. But all things that are REPROVED are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light. 14. Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. 15. See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, 16. Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

However, the following applies specifically to anyone who shouts from the rooftops “The Bible is NOT the Word of God”. The man that makes such a claim (and beenBlake has), more than once, and at the same time declares himself to be a Christian is a HERETIC:[/color][/b][/u]

9.A man that is an HERETICK after the first and second admonition REJECT; 11. Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

Admonition:
[u][b][color=00CC00]ADMONI'TION[/color][/b][/u], n. Gentle reproof; counseling against a fault; instruction in duties; caution; direction. Tit. 3. 1Cor. 10. In church discipline, public or private reproof to reclaim an offender; [u][b][color=0066FF]a step preliminary to excommunication. [/color][/b][/u]

[Previous page in the dictionary] [Next page in the dictionary]
admonition is also found in 25 definitions:
• admonishment
• admonitive
• forewarning
• iterate
• reprove
• steel

My post in response to beenBlake was to awaken him from his slumber. The Holy Spirit is the only One with the power to give him a new heart, open his eyes, and draw him to Christ.


God bless,

Stever :-)

 2006/5/27 0:51
enid
Member



Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2680
Nottingham, England

 Re: The bible is NOT the Word of God

I have nothing new to say about this post, but the scripture says that God is not the author of confusion, 1 Cor 14v33. And this post is confusing. Who would want to cause confusion among the body of Christ other than the enemy of Christ? He has caused people to question God's word ever since the garden of Eden, has God said?
And it has worked good for 6,000 years so why change tactics now? He has done it more recently with the Da Vinci code and no doubt other plans are on his satanic way. I reject wholly the statement that the Bible is not the word of God, irrespective of who wants to dialogue and reason with the said statement. We don't need to pray for discernment concerning this. It's too obvious. It is total heresey. Let's keep praying and reading the Word in these last days. We need too.

 2006/5/27 5:05Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

enid wrote:

Quote:
Who would want to cause confusion among the body of Christ other than the enemy of Christ? He has caused people to question God's word ever since the garden of Eden, has God said?


I would say that about the KJV only people.

I remember falling inti KJV onlyicsm and I sarted to doubt all Bible vesions including the KJV, I started to study greek so I would be able to read the origenal greek. But then I found that there was so many diferent greek texts and then I was starting to wounder if I would ever know the true WORD of GOD.

I finaly settled that all versions are ok.

 2006/5/27 19:04Profile









 Re: The bible is NOT the Word of God

Whilest I did not read the looonnnnnggg post, I did read the short responses which gave me the brief understanding of what you were saying.

I do agree with the posters that Jesus is certainly the word of God that liveth and abideth forever. Though the written word is NOT the word of God, but rather a collection of stories and perhaps legends that were meant to be a testimony of the greatness of God.

Having said that, I was speaking about the "written word", paper and ink. HOWEVER, we must not forget that Jesus said very plainly, "the words that I speak they are Spirit and they are Life".

Do we negate the written word because now we live by the logos of the Spirit? God forbid, how would I know anything about God had it not been for the Rhema of the word. As Paul said that we no longer live under the law being a school master to bring us to Christ, yet in the same breath he calls the Law both Holy and Spiritual, "Yea we establish the law".

We know that the letter killeth but it's the Spirit that giveth life. That simply means, "For to be carnally minded is death", "but to be spiritually minded is life and peace" and you can't be spiritually minded if you take the written word and try to apply it thru the flesh. If we could obtain righteous and peace thru the works of the flesh than Christ was merely a man who died and never rose from the dead.

But let me tell you this my friends to many religious mind sets today that is exactly how Jesus is to them, dead!

The written word, law and oblations etc.. is likened unto the moon, it was a foreshadow, it wasn't the true light. The law (written word) was a reflection of the true light, which John tells us "which now shineth".

When John the baptist came he came to a world that was in darkness and obscurity. Darkness was upon all men until Jesus would come with healing in His wings. The moon riegned until John after that the Sun of Righteousness is come.

So we need the written word to validate the spoken word. One thing is needful for all of us, "This is my beloved Son, HEAR YE HIM". He that hath ears to hear, let him hear what the Spirit sayeth.

Karl

 2006/5/28 12:32









 Re:

Stever responds to Healingwaters:

The Protestant Bible, the “Received Text”, passed down and "Received" from the Disciples and the early Church, the King James Bible, to me consists of the following:

[u][b][color=0000FF]The Bible

“Majestic, eternal, immutable BOOK,
Inspired, inerrant, complete.
The Light of my path as I walk on life’s way,
The Guide and the Lamp to my feet.

It’s writings are Holy and verbally true,
The unalterable Statue of Light,
For profit, for doctrine, for correction, reproof,
Infallible Guide to the Right.

My Treasure, my Comfort, my Help, and my Stay,
Incomparable, Measure and Rod,
Each page is replete with its textural proof,
The Bible, the exact WORD OF GOD![/color][/b][/u]

By Gertrude Grace Sanborn
(1904-2988)

The Catholic Bible, as well as all of the “newer” Bible versions relies on the “Minority Text” and is unreliable.

For more information on this issue go to the thread “Why would anybody still read the King James Bible” started by Philologos.

God bless,

Stever :-)


 2006/5/28 13:27
Graftedbranc
Member



Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re:

Quote:
By Gertrude Grace Sanborn
(1904-2988)



Gertrude lived a long time (-: .

Graftedbranch

 2006/5/29 16:07Profile
Graftedbranc
Member



Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re:

Quote:
The Bible

“Majestic, eternal, immutable BOOK,
Inspired, inerrant, complete.
The Light of my path as I walk on life’s way,
The Guide and the Lamp to my feet.

It’s writings are Holy and verbally true,
The unalterable Statue of Light,
For profit, for doctrine, for correction, reproof,
Infallible Guide to the Right.

My Treasure, my Comfort, my Help, and my Stay,
Incomparable, Measure and Rod,
Each page is replete with its textural proof,
The Bible, the exact WORD OF GOD!

By Gertrude Grace Sanborn



Here is a question for thought.

Consider the above quote and ask:

Could this be honestly quoted by a pharasee?

Where is Christ mentioned?

Could this not be the creed of the legalist also?

Could we not hold this Creed, have "correct doctrine" and yet be void of Christ?

Surely the Bible is all these things but not to us without Christ as our indwelling Life. The Bible to us without the indwelling Spirit is death. It kills us. But the Bible with the Spirit within us is Life and Light to us.

"Ye search the Scriptures because in them you think you have eternal Life but it is they that testify of Me and you will not come to Me that you may have Life"

"The Letter Kills but the Spirit gives Life"

We can hold to the letter of the Bible, contend for it, condemn those who deny it, and hold in contempt those who do not measure up to our understanding of it. And we can do all this with a wrong spirit deviod of Christ.

"To the messenger of the church in Ephesus write...I know your works and your labor and your endurance and that you cannot bear evil men; and you have tried those who call themselves apostles and are not... But I have one thing against you, that you have left your first love. Rmember therefore from where you have fallen and repent."

Without love for Christ, all our correctness is worthless. And without the Spirit there is no revelation of Christ and without revealion of Christ there can be no love for Christ.

And we must not confuse zeal for the Bible or doctrine as Love for Christ. Saul of Tarses was full of zeal for the Bible (as to the law? Found blameless). Full of zeal for his religion (as to zeal? A persecuter of the church). But void of love for Christ until He met the living Christ on the road to Demascus.



Graftedbranch

 2006/5/29 16:12Profile
beenblake
Member



Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA

 Re:

Dear All,

I don't have time to write responses to everyone just yet. I intend to do so. There are a few that stood out I want to address.

Quote:
As the Lord Himself said to the pharasee's, "you search the scriptures because in them you think you have eternal Life but it is they that testify of Me and you will not come to Me that you may have life."



Graftedbranc has said it well. The bible is slowly replacing Christ.

Quote:
now we can twist it and turn it...but if tou want to know what jesus said and did...you read his word............the bible.



And when you enter Heaven are you going to be justified by what the bible says, or by Christ? Will you argue with God using scripture, or will you stand firm on what Christ did on the cross?

The bible was not written by Christ. The bible was written by witnesses. The words written in the four gospels are the words of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Truly, the message of Christ was preserved, but words are not the exact words of Christ. They are not the words of God. They are the words of God passed through another person. This changes everything. This means that the bible is not the Word of God. Instead, it is a testimony to the Word of God.

I know people think I am arguing over semantics, but this is not an issue of semantics. The difference is immense. If you say "the bible is the Word of God" then you are saying the bible is God. It is true that God's Word will stand forever. God's Word is full of living power. This is speaking of Jesus Christ, not of the bible which is a record of Jesus. The bible is a testimony that testifies to Christ.

The Church needs to stop worshipping the bible, and turn to Christ. He is calling out to His bride, but she will not listen.

I will write more when I have time,
In Christ,
Blake


_________________
Blake Kidney

 2006/6/2 0:26Profile





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