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linda7
Member



Joined: 2006/4/23
Posts: 101
West Sussex, England

 Re: Baptism of the Holy Ghost with the Bible Evidence (utterance in tongues)



I go before Almighty God and confess that I have been comparing myself to other men and belittling my own experience of the Holy Spirit.

The devil comes to STEAL KILL and DESTROY

This morning I just happened to be looking through a notebook and came across some notes I had made from the Rora 2003 Series: TRUE CONVERT. In particular I began reading my notes on REGENERATION.

The great question: WHEN YOU BELIEVED DID YOU RECEIVE THE HOLY SPIRIT?

Not - Did you ask Jesus into your heart?
Not - Have you decided?
Not - Have you said the sinner's prayer?

WHEN YOU BELIEVED DID YOU RECEIVE THE HOLY SPIRIT?

Not - We believe He's come.
Not - We are taught He's come.
Not - The Bible says He's come.

HE'S COME!

I was immediately taken back to 1998, in my pastor's church in Canada, where I was sitting quietly alone, but with others doing the same, praying for the tongues, which I knew the Bible said would edify me. I had little control over my thoughts, or the onslaught of the occultic spirits that manifested - especially when I was prayed for, and not much confidence, although I believed. I had been asking for this for well over a year. This night my pastor came and sat alongside me. I was silently praying for these tongues. I began to worship God aloud when suddenly a beautiful tongue came forth from my mouth and I began weeping and was filled with such joy which overwhelmed me. I remember realizing "IT'S COME!" (I now know that the Holy Spirit is He, a person, then I was ignorant). I spent that whole evening singing and speaking with my new tongue I just wanted to go on and on. Afterwards my pastor told me that he had come over to me to pray silently for these tongues to be given to me. He knew my condition.

After this I received a confidence to confess with my tongue to others, to speak boldly about the Lord, I longed to give my testimony to others, of being pulled out of the darkness I had been in. Also there was power now over these demonic attacks. The Lord spoke personally to me about this. Over a period of time as the truth came alive to my Spirit, this gradually dwindled away.

I had thought that I had received the gift of tongues. Maybe I had, but I now know that this was the Baptism. Not only was there evidence at the time the Holy Spirit came upon me, but afterwards, the power to witness. How can I have been so taken in, to believe that I had to have an experience just like someone else's. The evidence is all there. I thank God that He has now made this perfectly clear. We are called to be overcomers.

Praise and thanks be to Almighty God for revealing the truth by his Spirit.

Thanks be to all who encouraged, and to those who are skeptical, may our gracious God bless you!

In His Love

Linda


Quote:

Stever wrote:
Hi Linda: I just wanted to provide you with more information about the wonderful thing that you are about to ask for and receive--the Baptism of the Holy Ghost.

My wife and I both received this baptism on the same evening, on 6/4/1999 at the home of our friends. Jerry had the most wonderful walk with the Lord. What he had is what I wanted.

All those things that I described in my previous post were true on the night of 6/4/1999. We had originally planned to have a Bible Study that night at Jerry & Audrey's home, however that morning I talked to Jerry and told him that I would like to receive the Baptism of the Holy Ghost. His response was- come in expectation of receiving it.

My wife sat on the floor, in front of the couch, and I sat in a chair. Jerry asked me if I had prayed to receive this Baptism of fire, and I said yes. He came over to where I was sitting, anointed my head with oil, and layed hands on me and prayed that I would receive this Baptism of Fire and Power, and that I would immediately speak in tongues.

I could not speak in tongues. I was frozen, and couldn't get past this point. He then asked me if I had ever been critical or negative of this spiritual gift from God in the past. I then remembered that many years ago, while I was in College, I had written a paper in one of my Psychology classes about the total gibberish that tongues consisted of. It went hand in hand with an article that had appeared in Psychology today, on the Front Cover (probably in 1973-1974).

He then took authority over "whatever negative spirit or force" that was blocking me from receiving this Baptism, and from receiving this gift of tongues, and bound it ---in the name of Jesus Christ, and I immediately started speaking in tongues, and crying, and praising the Lord.

Jerry turned to my wife, and looking down at her said, would you like to receive this Baptism? I could not believe it--she got up, and said----yes. I gave her my seat and he led her into the Baptism of the Holy Ghost in the same way he led me. However, she had no problem with speaking in tongues.

I hope this helps you, as well as Letsgetbusy, and anyone else who God has put it on their hearts to receive this Baptism of Fire, this Baptism of power.

God bless,

Stever :-)


_________________
Linda

 2006/5/18 6:05Profile









 Re:

Hi Linda, Great testimony! Did you know that the Baptism represents the priestly garments spoken of in Ezk.44.17. Read it and you'll see the great for it and the responsibilty we have when baptised.

Blessings,

:-)rm

 2006/5/19 14:17
linda7
Member



Joined: 2006/4/23
Posts: 101
West Sussex, England

 Re:

Hello Ormly,

No I didn't know that the Baptism represents the priestly garments. Can you tell me where you find this teaching?

I know this part of Ezek. is talking about the Millennium. I have just found John Courson's commentary on Ezek 44:16-17, where he explains that ministry to the Lord takes priority above ministry to others. Worship, adoration, the sacrifice of praise, not being busy, sitting at His feet, adoring Him. (the Father is seeking those who will worship Him in spirit and in truth; John 4:23). Mary rather than Martha. Is this the responsibility you spoke of?

In His Love
Linda


_________________
Linda

 2006/5/19 16:30Profile









 Re:

If you carefully read it it stipulates Linen as the garment, a garment that doesn't make you perspire ---- and God gives His reasons. I've mentioned elseware that there are three manifestations of the Holy Spirit. "With", "in", and "upon". The baptism is the "upon" manifestation. Read Jesus' last words before His ascension in Luke 24:49 (NASB-U)
"And behold, I am sending forth the promise of My Father [b]upon[/b] you; but you are to stay in the city until you are [b]clothed[/b] with power from on high."

And again in Acts 1:4 (NASB-U)
Gathering them together, He commanded them [b]not[/b] to leave Jerusalem, but to wait for what the Father had promised, "Which," He said, "you heard of from Me; for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."

He said this to His disciples already "indwelt" and born again by the Holy ghost in John 20:22 (NASB-U)

"And when He had said this, He breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit."

Acts 2 and the coming upon came 50 days later.

Baptism is not for salvation. Baptism is for the unction to function as Father purposed for us in Christ before the foundation of the world.

I hope that helps clear some of it up it for you.

Blessings,

:-)rm

 2006/5/19 20:16
linda7
Member



Joined: 2006/4/23
Posts: 101
West Sussex, England

 Re: Baptism of the Holy Ghost

Yes Ormly, I believe Stever covered this point and it is understood. Salvation and Baptism in the Holy Ghost are two separate experiences.
And I know the responsibility of which you speak, except now it has become more serious to me.

Bless you
Linda


_________________
Linda

 2006/5/20 6:27Profile









 Re:

Absolutely!

Here's a paper that will help all who seek the gift; The Promise of the Father.

In Him,

:-Drm

JESUS CHRIST, THE BAPTIZER


“THERE WAS A MAN SENT FROM GOD, whose name was John. .. . The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.... And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.

“And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining upon him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

“And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God” (John 1:6, 29, 32—34).

Every one of the four Gospels spells out John’s declaration, “I indeed baptize you with water; he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.” When the Pharisees asked, “Why baptizeth thou?” he replied, “That he should be made manifest.. . therefore I am come baptizing with water” (John 1: 25, 31). Furthermore, John assured them that he was sent to baptize with water (vs. 33). It was his ministry. This fact was recognized to such an extent that he became known as “John the Baptist.”

I doubt whether one could find a ten-year-old in Christendom that has not yet learned about John the Baptist. All through the ages, generation after generation, men have learned of this great prophet, but they know him by what he did and not by what he said or prophesied. Yet we know that he was both prophet and baptizer.

In recent times I have been astonished to find that very few Christians have ever heard that Christ is the baptizer in the Holy Ghost. They know Him as the Lamb of God, as Saviour; and as the Son of God, our Lord; but they are unfamiliar with the fact that He was announced to the world as the One to whom God gave the ministry of baptizing with the Holy Ghost.

Jesus Christ is both Saviour and Baptizer. We have no doubt that He is as much the Saviour today as when He died on Calvary as the Lamb of God. Even so, He is still the Baptizer in the Holy Spirit as much as He was when He commenced this ministry on the Day of Pentecost, for He is the “same, yesterday, today and forever.”

I have just traveled in seven countries and addressed over 300 ministers belonging to seven of the major classical Protestant churches. During these three months I have read a great variety of ecclesiastical writings, touching upon almost every subject and event between Easter and Pentecost. From Ascension to Pentecost. I have listened to many radio talks in several languages. Not once did I hear a minister, see in a paper, or hear over the radio any mention that Christ baptized with the Holy Spirit. In conversations many that questioned me or spoke to me expressed some surprise at my strong emphasis upon the message that Christ is the Baptizer in the Spirit. I have heard much about the work of the Spirit, about receiving the Spirit, and even about the coming of the Spirit, but nothing is ever said about being baptized with the Spirit.

The first intimation in history that a baptism with the Spirit was a possible event in the life of a human being came from John the Baptist. However, he did not announce the experience but rather the one who gave such an experience. He announced that the Baptizer was coming. He clearly states that God had told him that Christ would be the Baptizer with the Holy Ghost. He also assures us that the image for this act of Christ was his own act of baptizing in the river. From the very beginning, therefore, all John’s converts fully expected an experience that would be as overwhelming as their baptism in the river. These converts had an encounter with the baptizer and not with water or even the river. What they were to expect was an encounter with the Baptizer in the Holy Spirit and not with the Spirit or with the work of the Spirit in their lives.

For every baptism there must be an agent to baptize, and an element with or into which to baptize, and finally a candidate to be baptized. Such a candidate must present himself and ask for baptism. Then there must be a total and complete surrender to the baptizer and not to the element in which he baptizes. The baptism in the Holy Spirit is an encounter with Christ, the Baptizer. The candidates are those who have already had an encounter with Him as the Lamb of God, the Saviour, who took away all their sin and made them worthy temples of the Holy Spirit.

The disciples who left John and followed Christ that He might baptize them with the Holy Spirit discovered that He was full of the Spirit. They saw His miracles to prove it and heard His word to confirm it. Then He gave them power and authority to cast out devils and heal the sick, but that was not the baptism in the Spirit that they expected. Finally they saw Him weak and as a Lamb led to the slaughter, and He opened not His mouth. He died on the cross and was laid in the tomb, and no one had been baptized in the Spirit. What about John’s prophecy? Was it all mythical or mystical?

In the evening of that first Easter day of Resurrection, He suddenly and unexpectedly appeared in their midst. Then He breathed on them and said, ‘Receive ye the Holy Ghost.” This was after He had explained, “As my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.” But how did His Father send Him? First He came, born of the Spirit (Luke 1:35), and then He was endued with the Spirit (Luke 4: 1) to commence His earthly ministry. So here the disciples became the very first members of a new body, the church. He breathed eternal life into them. Calvary, the all-effective altar of God, had dealt with the sin question, and those who were dead in trespasses and sin now could receive the life-giving, regenerating Holy Spirit. This was for them the occasion where they were baptized into one body by the Spirit (I Cor.12:13).

But John said that God had said that Jesus would baptize with the Spirit, not that He would give the Spirit. I wonder how these disciples thought and felt about all these strange things? However, a few weeks later Jesus again spoke to the same men to whom He had said, “Receive ye the Holy Ghost.” Now He confirms John’s message. He says to them, “John truly baptized with water: but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence” (Acts 1: 5). Here Christ accepts and confirms the same image that God had given to John, a baptism in water and a baptism in the Holy Spirit—indeed a river baptism, but the river of life must first begin to flow upon earth.

Several predictions were confirmed on the Day of Pentecost. The Father gave the promised Holy Ghost, who was heard as wind and seen as fire. Jesus began to baptize in the Spirit and fire. The immediate consequence of this baptism was that the candidates began to speak with other tongues as Jesus had promised (Mark 16: 17). Then the Holy Spirit began to convict of sin, righteousness and judgment as Peter preached to the multitude (John 16:8). But the record says, “They were all filled {overflowed] with the Holy Ghost, and [of which was] they began to speak with other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance” (Acts2:4).

It seems that from this very day onward much more emphasis was given to the experience of the disciples than to the act of Jesus the Baptizer, and the whole controversy began to revolve around glossolalia—speaking with other tongues—which was the very simple consequence of this baptism in the Spirit. The Holy Spirit was the gift and tongues was the consequence. These tongues were a manifestation of the Holy Spirit and not a manifestation of the ecstasy of the human spirit. Speaking in tongues by the Holy Spirit or, as Paul puts it, “Praying with the Spirit,” is an act of the Holy Spirit upon the human spirit which transcends the understanding (I Cor.14: 14, 15).

Thus it seems clear that on the day of Pentecost the spirit of the disciples was baptized into the Holy Spirit and their bodies were filled with the Holy Spirit—overflowed with the Holy Spirit. The fact that they commenced to speak “with the Spirit” was proof of this overflowing.

In our day many pray for an infilling, an experience, instead of seeking the Baptizer. They ask the Holy Spirit to fill them when they should be asking Christ to baptize them. The baptism will produce the filling. This filling of the body by the baptism of the human spirit into the Holy Spirit produces an overflowing (see John 7:38) which causes the vocal organs to go into action and speak a language that is unknown to the candidate. He may be fully aware of what he is doing but does not know what he is saying (I Cor.14:14).

On the day of Pentecost God gave the Holy Spirit and Christ then baptized His followers into the Spirit, and they began to speak with other tongues as the spirit gave them utterance (Acts 2:4). About 10 years later, according to Acts 10:44—46, when the Apostle Peter dared to preach to the Gentiles for the first time (Acts 11:19), these same Gentiles received exactly the same experience that the apostles and the disciples of Christ had on the day of Pentecost. The record says, “And they of the circumcision [Jews] were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God” (Acts 10:46). The Jewish Christians in Jerusalem objected to all this. (Acts 11:2). Then Peter in his defense said, “And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. Then remembered the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water, but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost” (Acts 11: 15, 16). In other words, it was the same Baptizer who baptized into the same element, with the same consequences. The consequences were what convinced the Jewish Christians that the experience of the Gentiles was valid, for they heard them speak with tongues (Acts 10:46).

From this record it is quite clear that during the first decade Peter and the church in Jerusalem believed that Jesus is the Baptizer in the Holy Spirit and that “speaking with tongues” was the immediate consequence or confirmation of this baptism. During this last decade in our time the Christian world has become more conscious of the Holy Spirit and many are reaching out for His power and a charismatic ministry. However, it seems to me that unless the church once again lifts up Christ as the Baptizer, many will seek the blessing from the Holy Spirit and fail to find it because He will always honor Christ.
To get the baptism in the Spirit everyone must seek an encounter with the Baptizer, who began this ministry on the day of Pentecost when He truly came back in the Spirit to baptize His disciples. He is the same, yesterday, today and forever (Heb.13:8).

David Duplessis .......[Mr. Pentecost]


 2006/5/20 8:43









 Re:

Your post was perfect teaching on the Baptism of the Holy Ghost, Ormly.

David du Plessis' book "A Man Called Mr. Pentecost" can be found at
http://www.blretail.com/mancalledmrpentecost.htm

This is another book by du Plessis--The Spirit Bade Me Go:
http://www.blretail.com/mancalledmrpentecost.htm

However, with my endorsement of du Plessis understanding of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, and how to receive it, I have to differ with his understanding of the Church. He was involved with
the Ecumenical movement, the bringing together of Rome (Catholicism) with the Protestant Church as well as teaching that the Church, not Jesus Christ, would establish Christ's Kingdom on this earth!

So, even though he is absolutely correct in his understanding of the Baptism of the Holy Ghost that provides power to the believer, and the speaking in an unknown tongue, he was absolutely WRONG on what that Baptism of power was to be used for!!!!!!


This is from the foundations of Apostcy:
http://users.stargate.net/~ejt/founda1.htm

The Forties
I only want to mention two things about this decade. One is a man and the other is an organization.
40s: DAVID DU PLESSIS. In 1947, the First World Pentecostal Conference was held in Zurich, Switzerland. This conference brought into prominence David Du Plessis, "Mr. Pentecost," who went on to organize three other World Conferences.

Du Plessis participated in the first of six assemblies of the World Council of Churches (Amsterdam, 1948), a council which :

1. concluded that men have an obligation to recognize the brotherhood amongst denominations and to recognize all churches alike,
2. introduced the idea of worldwide unity to "claim for Christ the whole world and all aspects of life,"
3... and to bring to light the idea that the Kingdom of God was being established upon the earth.

Du Plessis's involvement in the WCC assembly was not a one time event. In his book and lectures, he went on to promote the WCC's "Week of Prayer for Christian Unity," whose theme was "The Unity of the Local Congregation in the Unity of the Universal Church." The exhortation for the eighth day of prayer went like this:
"As you pray remember that you are a member of the whole Body of Christ and in particular reflect on the need FOR MANIFESTATIONS OF UNITY through Church organizations - denominational boards, church synods, confessional alliances, local and national councils of churches, and especially for the World Council of Churches."

Du Plessis was a watchdog of the pentecostal experience. He said that from 1900-1908, the historic Protestant churches fought the Pentecostal revival and denounced it as from the devil. But by 1950-1958, the climate had changed and the Protestants' attitude had reversed. Du Plessis said that by 1961,
"I beheld the results of the change and can declare the Pentecostal revival within the churches is gathering force and speed."
By 1963, Du Plessis had preached the Pentecostal experience in 45 countries. He was a major player in the ecumenical movement from the pentecostal faction, and became a bridge between Rome and the world of Pentecostalism. In his book, The Spirit Bade me Go, he states his call by God as being
"called to labor for better understanding and closer fellowship between the Pentecostal movements, and to bring the Pentecostal message and blessing into the ranks OF ALL THE CHRISTIAN CHURCHES."
40s: LATTER RAIN In Canada, other seeds were being planted that would eventually affect the future direction of the Church as a whole. George and Earnest Hawtin and George Warnock became early leaders in what would become known as the Latter Rain movement. Latter Rain brought with it the belief that one had to have special knowledge, or "gnosis," to attain the fullness of God. Those who achieved "gnosis" would become the "true seed" who would bring deliverance to the world and establish Christ's Kingdom on earth.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

God Bless,

Stever :-)

 2006/5/20 9:36









 Re:

Notwithstanding, he did give us rectification in the matter of recieving the gift in the way that closes the door to any counterfeit desiring entrance to our mind. The gift will edify us in Christ Jesus per John 17 and carries with a reciprocal from the Father who is also present in the equation.

David De, as well as most other teacher-leaders, didn't possess ALL the truth. The church doesn't possess ALL the truth, either. That's why we have so many denominations of it and why it is so vitaly necessary we have the unction to function in the matter for the reason stated in my above remark.

One of the contributers to my spiritual growth has been Oswald Chambers and authors who have influenced him like Geo. MacDonald, a universalist, but his own experience in recieving the gift of the baptism of the Holy Ghost leaves me wanting and yet there can be no denying his intimacy with the Father.

Thanks Stever,

Ken

 2006/5/20 11:21
linda7
Member



Joined: 2006/4/23
Posts: 101
West Sussex, England

 Re:

Quote:

Ormly wrote:


In recent times I have been astonished to find that very few Christians have ever heard that Christ is the baptizer in the Holy Ghost. They know Him as the Lamb of God, as Saviour; and as the Son of God, our Lord; but they are unfamiliar with the fact that He was announced to the world as the One to whom God gave the ministry of baptizing with the Holy Ghost.




I have been in pentecostal churches since 1997 and no teaching was ever given on the Baptism of the Holy Ghost. It was understood you receive the Holy Ghost when you are saved. I was taught I should pray for tongues. which I did and received a year later, only now I find out through posing a question on this site regarding the Baptism, and communicating with people that have received it, that it was the Baptism I received back in 1998. My pastor at the time was amazed at the difference this made. He said it was stunning what God had done. He never stated that this was the Baptism. Most in the pentecostal churches I have been in are just praying for tongues. It is good to be clear about this.

A second point I would like to make is, I have a friend who received tongues many years ago, but does not have any power to witness and it bothers her. She fell away from the faith also for about 20 years. I am beginning to wonder what did she receive then?

Linda


_________________
Linda

 2006/5/20 14:41Profile









 Re:

Amen, Linda!

View this article of what it can really be all about if we were taught properly.

http://www.jesus.org.uk/congo.html

Blessings,

:-)rm

Ps. "God does not give us overcoming life; He gives us life as we overcome......Arise from the dead".

[i]Oswald Chambers[/i]

 2006/5/20 14:46





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